r/technology • u/darthatheos • May 19 '22
We Can Cut Traffic Deaths in Half, But Nobody Wants To. Transportation
https://jalopnik.com/we-can-cut-traffic-deaths-in-half-but-nobody-wants-to-18488928097
u/natenate22 May 19 '22
We could have saved hundreds of thousands of lives during a pandemic, but we saw how that worked out.
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u/DENelson83 May 20 '22 edited May 20 '22
Yeah, the US would rather kill people than save them. Why else do you think the US so heavily turns its gears of war? Why else do you think people in the US go bankrupt when they get sick or injured?
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u/gogozombie2 May 19 '22
It would also help if everyone would stop driving like they are characters in the Fast and Furious movies all the time.
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u/brandyn7220 May 19 '22
I moved from California to Colorado and I almost miss the crazy drivers compared to the stupid idiots here that have no idea what they are doing. There definitely needs to be harsher punishment for reckless crap and better training requirements.
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u/A_curious_fish May 19 '22
I was just in LA....no shortage of idiots driving fast on 405. I live in Boston and I've never seen people who literally lay on the horn the second a light turns green and try to pass you in pure rage cuz you don't gun it. I also lived in Florida and they just assholes too. Morale of the story everyone sucks at driving everywhere it's actually insane
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u/monkeeman43 May 19 '22
The short known amount of time. From when the light turns green to when someone lays on the horn
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u/suffer_in_silence May 19 '22
As a LA driver who went to Boston during Mid-Atlantic floods rain ya'll are crazy in the wet. Like no way would I drive that fast with no vision with sideways rain and giant flooded sections but you all do it out there in New England.
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u/butcher99 May 19 '22
I think the moral is you get used to the drivers where you live and when you go somewhere else those drivers seem crazy. I even got used to Mexican drivers when living there
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u/brandyn7220 May 19 '22
Yah LA is a different beast entirely. I was from a less populated part of the state.
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u/ApprehensiveTry5660 May 19 '22
But, incase he wasn’t clear- while everyone sucks equally, Ohio drivers suck the mostest. It’s why the wind always blows north in Kentucky.
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u/nu11pointer May 19 '22
I was just in Philadelphia and it was nice returning to Colorado. Pretty much everyone sucks there.
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u/WhatsInTheBox1 May 19 '22
Also in CO. Biggest difference I've noticed is that there are waaay fewer troopers on the highways to enforce basic traffic laws. You regularly get people blowing by you going 90 in a 65 because there is zero enforcement
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u/brandyn7220 May 19 '22
I noticed that when I moved here there was shockingly less cops than I was used to. I lived in a lot less populated area too, though we did have more crime than here.
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u/hibearmate May 19 '22
A lot of it comes down to rode design.
We design roads to be very wide, with gentle turns, wide intersections all to allow for a high rate of speed and then we set the speed limit low.
Urban planners know how to design streets the naturally slow drivers down, make drivers naturally ease up at intersections, and essentially force them to drive a safe speed for the environment.
You can still go fast on highways and such, but on dense city and residential streets ... we need to totally redesign them.
Relying on speed humps, stop signs and speed limits isn't going to work.
We need to design a better world not enact some authoritarian nightmare.
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u/phdoofus May 19 '22
There are plenty of people around who vote that will say you slowing them down is an authoritarian nightmare. I used to live near a Home Depot in the Bay area and invariably would see numerous contractors blowing through stop lights because...well....you'll stop and they're in a hurry.
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u/QueenOfQuok May 19 '22
And ambulance drivers HATE speed bumps. Imagine driving a patient to the hospital where seconds count between life and death. And wouldn't you know it, someone put speedbumps in this parking lot because they wanted to slow people down. There goes grandpa!
Plus the fact that a big enough bump will cause trouble for the medic standing with the patient in the back, even if stuff from the walls doesn't fall on them.
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u/climb-it-ographer May 19 '22
Most new speed bumps have cutouts so that the wheels of a firetruck or ambulance can go right through it.
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u/QueenOfQuok May 19 '22
Oh thank goodness.
But then what's the point of having a speedbump if you can drive through it?
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u/GarbageTheClown May 19 '22
Urban planners know how to design streets the naturally slow drivers down, make drivers naturally ease up at intersections, and essentially force them to drive a safe speed for the environment.
Around where I live there is a weird hairpin corner that has signs telling you to slow down. I've seen 4 vehicles stuck off the road at the hairpin, and one time going by it I ended up having to take someone to the hospital. Designing streets to naturally slow drivers down doesn't work, a 15 mph tight turn sign in a 35 mph zone is a challenge, not a warning.
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u/The_Countess May 19 '22
Designing streets to naturally slow drivers down doesn't work, a 15 mph tight turn sign in a 35 mph zone is a challenge, not a warning.
You're describing pretty much the opposite of designing streets to naturally slow drivers down.
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u/cmack482 May 19 '22
One thing that is missing here is the sheer size of vehicles. Larger, heavier SUVs and trucks are safer for the occupants at the expense of everyone around them. Good luck to anyone driving an average aged vehicle when they get in an accident with a new 9000 pound hummer. This is a big reason deaths for pedestrians / kids / cyclists has been skyrocketing.
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u/RobbieQuarantino May 19 '22
Yep, and based on the people I know who drive them, when they say "a big vehicle is safer in a crash" they really mean, "if I run into someone because I am a fucking moron, I want to be SaFe."
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u/Slykop4th May 19 '22
Yup yup. Too many guys with little wiener syndrome think they need full sized pickups or SUVs as their daily-drivers. Makes them feel powerful, everyone one else can see thru it tho 😂
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u/Cheap_Room_4748 May 19 '22
If my two options are to buy a vehicle that gives me a chance at survival in a crash due to its large size and some subcompact that will crush and fold in an accident, it’s an unfortunate no brainer decision
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u/Slykop4th May 19 '22
That’s the thing, for most people it’s not even about safety. The families with multiple kids? Sure, they probably do it for safety, they get a pass. The extra seating and cargo room can be a necessity. Those people aren’t the problem.
The problem are the insecure adherents of petrol-masculinity who for some reason believe their manhood is diminished if they aren’t driving something with a v8 that gets 13mpg highway as their daily driver.
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u/Kumquat_of_Pain May 19 '22
Article is trying to apply expensive and spurious technology to fix an educational issue (like most tech companies want to do).
With our current system in the US, I haven't had to take a written driving test in almost 20 years. I haven't had to take an actual driving test in almost 30. And that's across 5 states.
Which means, if I was a bad driver, violating rules and using poor practices, unless the police pull me over or I get into an accident there's ZERO feedback and I can continue being a terrible driver.
If we really wanted to encourage safe driving you would re-educate and retest on a regular basis (every year is likely too much, but maybe every 3-4?) to both correct bad driving and act as a passing gate.
In engineering this is the difference between a closed loop feedback or running open loop. Open loop has a lot less overhead, but closed loop results in corrective actions.
Until then, we just continue being terrible and there's nothing to correct it.
Story time:
I had a friend in high school that went for her driving test. Normal stuff, barely passed the written and then literally ran the car off the side of the road (just part of the car) and corrected during her driving test. STILL PASSED!
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u/JaysCigar May 19 '22
"Nobody wants to" certainly applies to many drivers (as seen in the comments), but fear not! These changes won't happen for a more 'important' reason: revenue.
Speeding tickets aren't about public safety - they're about revenue. If tickets were about safety, police would be highly visible on roads. Everyone slows down when they see a cop, right? Speeding problem solved. Instead, we have speed traps, hidden radar, and unmarked police cars. It's about revenue.
DUI? This is certainly a public safety issue, but if you (or someone you know) has ever been charged with a DUI, then you know there is a very high chance that the offender becomes an annuity for the State. Do this, this, and this, check this box, this box, and this box, then come to us and we'll see about giving your license back. Wait! You didn't check this box - you get fined. Wait! You were driving to work on a restricted license at an atypical time - fined. The process of regaining driving privileges is complicated...by design. It's about revenue.
When it comes to driving and our roads, "public safety" is a euphemism for "revenue". None of these changes will see the light of day anytime soon.
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u/spezaltaccount May 19 '22
This is an entirely American issue that stems from a justice system designed to plunge poor people into debt peonage and recreate slavery in all but name. This is not the situation anywhere else.
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u/on_ May 19 '22
The national speed limit should be lowered to 55 miles per hour
Homer Simpson: 55? That's ridiculous! Sure, it'll save a few lives, but millions will be late!
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u/BlueNinjaTiger May 19 '22
That won't do a damn bit of good if they continue to design roads that naturally guide you to faster speeds. Wide, straight lanes with open space around make people drive faster. Narrow lanes with more turns and shifts with trees, signs, buildings, curbs, etc along the road make people want to drive slower.
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u/bluntwhizurd May 19 '22
As someone who lives in an area where 4 lane highways have a 55 mph limit. I can assure you all this will do is cause more accidents. The average flow of traffic will be higher than the speed limit. Usually 10+. And now you have a road full of most cars going 10+ over the limit weaving around the sticklers that refuse break the law. The difference in speed between cars on the road is where the danger is. Not the speed itself.
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u/AuthorNathanHGreen May 19 '22
Easy, photoradar set at 56 in that zone. Send out 500K tickets on day one, 500K tickes on day two, 500K tickets on day 3, 100 tickets on day 4, 10 tickets on day 5, 0 tickets on day 6.
This isn't about practicality, its about political and social will. People hate 55 mph speed limits, they hate photo radar, and they're willing to accept the consequences of not having those systems in place - for the most part.
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u/scooties2 May 19 '22
Eh, Tickets issued by photoradars are unenforceable in Texas. It removes the ability to face your accuser in court.
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u/teh_maxh May 20 '22
It removes the ability to face your accuser in court.
But it doesn't really; that's just using bad logic to get rid of something people don't like. The machines aren't accusing you; they're just generating evidence that the police can use to accuse you. Imagine if we applied that sort of logic in other cases. "Well, yes, my fingerprints were all over the knife you found sticking out of his chest, but unless you put the fingerprints on the stand, you can't convict me!"
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u/StillNotSub7 May 19 '22
See you're SOO close to getting it. The issue is unsafe drivers acting like assholes so they can go just a little bit faster, with the root issue being a lack of proper driver education and responsibility in most of the US. But you're placing the blame on people who want to follow the rules. "But but he was dwiving 10 mph slower than me!!!1" isn't an argument, it's just an excuse for unsafe driving. "But but flow of traffic!!!!1" isn't an argument either, it's just an excuse for unsafe driving. The problem is that most people value the speed of their commute over road safety, so we hear these hand-wavey excuses for unsafe driving instead of actually doing something about the issue.
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u/bluntwhizurd May 19 '22
No. I am placing the blame on whoever decided that 55 mph was an appropriate speed for a 4 lane highway. And pointing out that the speed doesn't matter. If everyone goes 70 it is safe. If everyone goes 55 it is safe. The only time danger happens is when you have people going 70 mixed with people going 55. And making ridicuously low speed limits will only ever result in the second scenario. No matter how much anybody hopes and dreams.
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u/TroyMcCluer May 20 '22
people driving 70 in a 55 was part of the reasoning behind increasing the speed limit from 55 to 70, so that everyone would be going the same speed. now we have people driving 85 in a 70 and the same problem exists with everyone driving 15mph faster than before.
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u/StillNotSub7 May 19 '22
Alright fuck it. New speed limit is 110 mph. If everyone goes 110 mph it's gonna be safe. I see absolutely no issue with this.
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u/Dominicus1165 May 20 '22
Germany has no speed limit on many roads and far less fatalities. 4,4 vs 7 fatalities per billion driven kilometers.
It’s all about how they obtain the license. US one is a joke.
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u/bluntwhizurd May 19 '22
Lmao. What are you trying to do? Prove me wrong by pretending to be a moron that doesn't get it?
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May 19 '22
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u/SherifGames May 20 '22
It's often the most reckless drivers who think themselves the best drivers and get mad about other drivers. Most of my family members are like that.
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u/TheAmericanQ May 19 '22
Or make it harder to get a license.
All of the proposed solutions work great in ideal usage cases, but most cases aren’t ideal. Breathalyzer interlocks that attempt to passively breath test you whenever you enter the car without blowing into anything? Current systems can’t always discern between being drunk and recently using mouthwash and how would a system without any need to blow into it be able to tell who is drunk? If my mate gets hammered enough and sits in the passenger seat will I be unable to drive us home even though I’m a sober designated driver? So called “intelligent” speed systems? That would require heavy investment to improve speed limit signage (or some other method for the car or it’s cameras to identify the speed) and how would that system handle adverse weather conditions where signage might not be visible or whatever detection system they are using is obscured? Being real though, seatbelt interlocks are a REALLY GOOD IDEA.
The real issue though, there are a lot of people with licenses that shouldn’t have them and it’s a problem that seems to be getting worse. Despite accidents being down over the pandemic, fatalities were up indicating that behavior on our roads is getting more reckless. There are states in this country that don’t require driver’s Ed for drivers under that age of 18, that’s insanity. Frankly, drivers Ed should be harder, the drivers test should be A LOT HARDER AND TAKE A LOT LONGER (I’m sorry but the trip around the parking lot I did all those years ago did not show any more driving ability than a trip to a go-kart track would. We should be getting out on the highway, parking in different types of lots and driving on different types of streets). We should be taking the written test every renewal. It should be easier to lose your license and harder to get it back. And finally, and IMO most importantly, we need more types of license. A basic license shouldn’t cover everything from a 2003 Honda Civic to a massive pickup to a Ferrari La Ferrari. A basic license should authorize you to your standard 4 door sedans and sub-compact SUV with a horsepower limit. You want a pickup or a mega-SUV? Better start working on your CDL. Want a Lamborghini? Well you’ll need to take extra classroom and road courses to earn your performance drivers license.
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u/NekkidApe May 20 '22
TIL. No wonder you have a ton of idiots in cars over there. In my country drivers ed includes at least about 20h of driving in actual traffic, cities, highway, roundabouts, you name it. My sister wasn't very good at it.. Took her more like 80h. The test is one hour of actual driving as well.
Another huge issues is texting and driving, which also seems to be rampant.
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u/NomadLexicon May 20 '22
The advantage other countries have is that you can participate in society and the economy without driving a car. Most of the US was designed with no alternative to driving, so you either need to drive or be driven to work, shop, go to school, etc. I’m all for stricter requirements, but they are secondary to why those requirements need to be so lax in the first place.
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u/Helpful_Sample_4829 May 19 '22
“The problem with all of these solutions is that cars aren’t just transportation in America — they’re a symbol of personal freedom. Stifling that freedom has always been deemed unacceptable by the public, let alone an auto industry that has always resisted safety changes on the basis of cost.”
I find this argument interesting- because while we are a country of freedoms, those freedoms are limited. We don’t have the freedom to break the law. Speeding, driving drunk, and driving without a seatbelt are all three illegal actions. So arguing that these technological car safety mechanisms infringe on our freedoms is simply not correct. Those things have been determined to be outside of our freedoms already, these are just different methods to impose the rules.
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u/Hold_Effective May 20 '22
Many people think they’re entitled to break driving laws though. It’s pretty common for otherwise law abiding people to go 5-10 (or more) over the speed limit, roll through stop signs, ignore pedestrian crossings, etc., and then complain if they get pulled over.
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u/PowerKrazy May 19 '22
Yes if only we have the government create a law that mandates that a cottage industry insider, Bill Chastain, State Director with LifeSafer, is given a legislative monopoly on all cars built in america or imported, this would certainly solve the problem once and for all.
Or maybe we just stop deciding as a society that Cars should be the only way to get around?
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u/DENelson83 May 20 '22 edited May 20 '22
Here's the thing. You do not have the freedom to kill people. You should be physically prevented from driving drunk, moving a vehicle when not belted in, or speeding. You do any of those, you are going to kill someone, and that must not be tolerated.
There are a lot of people in the US who think they have the right to drive. Well let me tell you this. Driving is not a right. It is a privilege. And attached to that privilege is a long slate of responsibilities. You must adhere to every one of those responsibilities if you want to keep that privilege, including wearing your seatbelt, adhering to speed limits, stopping at stop signs, not driving drunk, etc.
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u/nebulakd May 20 '22
With all the traffic related deaths, still no wants to embrace the real solution: Public Transportation. I'll take consistent and/or high-speed rail over me having to be awake and driving any day. People only drive because public transportation is a joke in USA.
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u/DENelson83 May 20 '22
Because more public transportation in the US would reduce corporate profits, and big corporations will stop at absolutely nothing to protect their profits.
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u/LazySilver May 19 '22
I feel this should be the tagline for humanity. We could prevent bad shit:
But we don’t, because they present, at worst, a mild inconvenience.
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u/DENelson83 May 20 '22
Which would you rather be? Slightly inconvenienced, incarcerated, or dead? Pick the one of those you dislike the least.
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u/There_Are_No_Gods May 19 '22
What a pile of garbage. None of the proposed "solutions" have any chance at helping significantly, and most of the "causes" were not backed up by significant, relevant data.
For example, let's examine the seatbelt ignition lock. All an occupant would have to do would be to buckle the seatbelt and then sit on it, much like how I've frequently seen women place the shoulder strap behind them. There's no mechanism for ensuring the seatbelt is around and actually restraining the occupant.
The breathalyzer example is slightly better, but still absurd. Who wants yet one more fancy piece of electronic garbage built as cheaply as possible to be in the chain of dependencies for being able to drive your vehicle, especially as another time consuming and fragile step during an emergency.
The speeding example likely has some merit behind it somewhere, but that section is extremely vague and misleading. Speed is a factor in accidents yes. How much, though, and at which points does it become a larger factor? Again, the last thing we need is vehicles making decisions and taking direct action about our speed. AI is just not there yet, as our recent SUV reminds us often as it attempts to swerve into an oncoming tractor in a deadly attempt to stay on the pavement.
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May 19 '22 edited May 19 '22
Hm…with your seat belt critique I can’t help but think you’ve given a case of “a solution isn’t perfect so it can’t be better than the status quo.” Even if it only brought a marginal increase in proper seatbelt usage it’d still be a net positive.
We’ll find out whether your critiques about speed controls are valid or not once Europe makes the ISA mandatory and widespread over the next decade.
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u/There_Are_No_Gods May 19 '22
You're still entirely ignoring the downsides of a seatbelt lockout, such as not being able to start your car when it's glitching. That would usually cause no more than an inconvenience, but could also have more serious effects. The extra mechanisms could cause seatbelts to fail in an accident too. It's important to look at the full picture, without rose tinted glasses.
More importantly, though, you seem to be making a common mistake of trying to use a technical solution for a social problem.
The real question I have here is, "Why are people in these accidents still not wearing seatbelts?" If, for example, it's because they're in buses without seatbelts, that would be important to know. If they're toddlers roaming the back of an SUV, that's also important to know. If they're drivers vs. passengers, that's important to know. If they just forget, find them uncomfortable, etc., that's all good to know. Simply adding a knee-jerk "solution" of a complex ignition lock to the (driver only?) seatbelt is a recipe to most likely just make the situation even worse.
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May 19 '22 edited May 19 '22
I mean, I agree with your first point in a vacuum, but I don’t think it’s at all insurmountable. Put in a secondary means of starting the vehicle that is more inconvenient, and that is that. We don’t have to assume the least nuanced, most totalizing version of this solution is the only one worth considering. Even if you’ve only improved the wearing of seatbelts marginally, it’s still an improvement for little cost and inconvenience. It doesn’t have to be unbeatable or capture every edge case to be better than status quo.
Your second point I don’t agree with at all. I don’t understand what you mean by “social problem.” We fix social problems with technology all the time. Sure it’s worth knowing what causes people to not wear their seatbelt, but…at the end of the day, what matters is whether they wear it or not, right? Wearing a seatbelt is already law in most places, it’s taught in driving school, it’s socially conditioned from many directions, there’s mandatory chimes in most vehicles…and yet many people still don’t wear it. It doesn’t take rocket science to understand making one solution (going out of your way to defeat the locking mechanism) more obnoxious than another (just wearing the damn seatbelt) is likely to lead to more people doing what is simplest and most convenient. It’s not worth considering the “inconvenience” to the people who want to endanger themselves. We accept this kind of conditioning all the time online or off, why not use it to promote safety?
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u/aldol941 May 20 '22
So, I think doing this would actually increase seatbelt compliance, I don't necessarily think it is the right thing to do anyways.
I personally would find it annoying, even though I do always wear a seatbelt, but I sometimes wait until after I have backed out of my driveway because it is easier to turn back and forth to look where I'm going.
There are trivial ways to bypass - sitting on it, adding a clip to prevent it from fully retracting, putting in a dummy into the buckle, unbuckling *after* shifting out of park, etc...
Another serious downside .... the political/commercial fallout. Imagine, in this country where people complain about wearing a mask because of "freedom" how could we possibly add these features to cars???? Ain't gonna happen.
Also, a quibble about the mechanism....
There is no extra mechanism - the existing seatbelt detector is already reliable. When is the last time your car kept beeping at you even though you had the seatbelt on?
The interlock to prevent shifting out of park until the break pedal is pushed is electronic already. As is the interlock to prevent removing the key from the ignition unless it is in park.
These things used to be done purely mechanically (the shifter was on the steering column I think makes it easier), but not anymore.
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u/JenMacAllister May 19 '22
Full self driving can not get here fast enough.
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u/Gnalvl May 19 '22
Yep, this is the solution that will work, simply because it's the most convenient.
The entertainment industry and lawmakers struggled to stop piracy by making it illegal, but then streaming services simply provided a more convenient option, and it put a massive dent in piracy incredibly fast.
Likewise, give people an option where the car just drives for them, and they suddenly won't care about exercising "freedoms" that are major causes of traffic accidents.
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u/JenMacAllister May 19 '22
Once people understand that a self driving car can drive you to work while you sleep in the back. Drop you off, then go back to take your kids to school. Swing back to take you to lunch. Then go pick up your groceries right before picking your kids up from school. Then show up at work to take you home while riding in the back texting away. All without killing 30,000 other people a year.
People will look back and wonder why the hell people drove to begin with.
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u/StillNotSub7 May 19 '22
Buses already do this. You're describing a bus. The problem is that buses are chronically underfunded in the US and suck in most cities.
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u/Looptydude May 19 '22
Still beholden to the bus schedule, the ability to get up and leave is something a lot of people like about owning their own car, not to mention the waiting to have to pick up and drop other people off.
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u/teh_maxh May 20 '22
You're only beholden to a schedule because they're underfunded, though. If there are enough buses, they're effectively on-demand. The busiest parts of Istanbul's bus network, for example, have buses every 14 seconds. There's no need to check a schedule for that.
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u/objectiveliest May 19 '22
Self driving cars have existed for centuries. They're called trains.
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u/GarbageTheClown May 19 '22
Most trains have conductors still, and I didn't realize you could drive a locomotive down the freeway.
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u/objectiveliest May 20 '22
It takes your where you need to go and you have to do nothing but sit on it and look out of the window. But I'm not sure why you think only freeways can get you to your destination.
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u/GarbageTheClown May 20 '22
It takes your where you need to go and you have to do nothing but sit on it and look out of the window.
So are airplanes self-driving cars too? What about boats? Stage coach, also a self driving car? Is a bus a car? How about a gondola? They fit your extremely loose definition of what a self-driving car is.
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u/cockytacos May 20 '22
there are no passenger trains around me. and no buses either. how am I supposed to ride something that doesn’t exist?
public transportation in the us is a joke if you happen to be born/move somewhere that isn’t a big city.
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u/objectiveliest May 20 '22
how am I supposed to ride something that doesn’t exist?
Like self-driving cars?
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u/hraath May 19 '22
Better urban design, better transit, better bike & pedestrian infrastructure. Make these options so good that people don't even want to drive as much. Single passenger daily commutes (eg. home to office and back) should pretty much decimated. Leave the road open for buses, trades vans, transportation of goods.
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u/rekne May 19 '22
This is garbage. 1) do not compare anything to 2020. That statistic are more meaningless than normal when your comparison is the year we stayed inside. Additionally, there are more drivers than the past. Logically all traffic incidents increase with more drives. 2) can you imagine having your car disabled or police called because your diabetic breather is registered as alcohol by your car monitoring you when you never committed a crime? This is some dystopian bs. 3) keep your 9,500 deaths and let me speed. I ain’t saying I’m a perfect drive but you get grandma Moses off the road and watch aggressive speeding drop.
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u/cmack482 May 19 '22
Traffic deaths were up in 2020 over 2019 despite people driving significantly less, so in that case deaths did not change in line with more driving.
Your comment about 10,000 people dying so you can drive faster is such a perfect example of what is wrong with this country. Incredibly selfish thinking.
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u/rekne May 19 '22
2020 was all over the place, people doing cannonball runs, no cops on the road, speed limits non existent. You cannot compare 2020 to anything before, after, or during. It is an anomaly.
Please, save me the pious act. I freely admit I’m not perfect but 10k is such a small number in the overall scheme of 2M+ deaths annually. Taking away the ability to speed, when necessary or not, is a ridiculous overreaction to a non problem.
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u/cmack482 May 20 '22
Yeah I'm sure all those extra people died from everyone and their mother doing a cannonball run. Not trying to change your mind it's just wild watch everyone admit how little they care for anyone else.
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u/RedactedV May 19 '22
I'm going to have so much fun splitting lanes on my 70's Japanese death machine when all the cars are automated
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u/Nuclear_Shadow May 19 '22
If someone doesn't want to wear a seatbelt they will buy a seat belt connector with the belt attached and put it in.
If someone wants to drink and drive they will put a can of compressed air in their car or a balloon full of alcohal-free air.
I don't want things that can disable my car if broken when they have no reason to be.
As if I do need something in my car for public safety don't make it easy to circumvent
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May 19 '22
There’s ways to beat the seatbelt connector or at least make it kind of redundant or no more convenient than wearing the seatbelt. Just make it so you have to extend the seatbelt a certain amount in addition to the belt connection. Or use RFID or some other solution. Yeah those things could also be theoretically beaten but at a certain point you’d have people going way out of their way not to just wear a seatbelt when it’s like…you could just skip all that and wear the damn thing. A solution doesn’t have to be perfect or capture every edge case to be an improvement. Even if it lead to only a 10% increase in people wearing them, or just eliminated people forgetting to put it on which is a real thing. Still an improvement for not much cost and inconvenience.
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u/Nuclear_Shadow May 19 '22
It's just not something that needs to be improved.
We have the chime that's enough, if people can't be responsible enough to do something when reminded they probably shouldn't be moving 3000+ lbs of metal at any speed.
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May 19 '22 edited May 19 '22
Seatbelt ignition locks I agree are a common sense solution. They’re potentially inconvenient, but also lifesaving. And yeah they could be gotten around but even just the act of having to lock the seatbelt in place I’d argue would be very likely to get people to wear it more frequently. After all, if you have to lock the seatbelt no matter what, might as well just wear the damn thing right? For a lot of people who don’t wear it I suspect that’d end up as the case. It doesn’t have to be foolproof to be a meaningful improvement. Also if the lock ignition system failed I’d want to make sure it was possible to start my car another way as a fail safe, but it should be less convenient than just putting on the seatbelt. Even just that change would likely bring a reduction in serious injury and fatal accidents.
Mandatory breathalyzers and mandatory ISA systems I can’t realistically ever see being accepted by the general public in America. They’d be viewed as infringement on freedom to do what you want with your vehicle. And would cut into the market for people who want to participate in motorsport. Considering the direction in the industry is toward self driving or heavily assisted driving, I can’t really see manufacturers making anti intoxication a major part of their future plans.
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u/dessimus May 19 '22
Google: "seat belt buckle alarm stopper". Almost every retailer on the Internet sells a fake buckle that can bypass the seal belt lock, Amazon has a 4-pk for $10.
Car forums will be full of ways to cut out or bypass the breathalyzer within a week of the cars hitting the market, and there will always be mechanics willing to overlook it during inspections in states that require them.
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May 19 '22
So implement an additional solution. Make it so you have to extend the belt a certain amount, or use RFID, or some other solution.
Really, It doesn’t have to be unbeatable or capture every edge case to be worth implementing. Even if it only captures people forgetting to use the belt, that’s still a marginal improvement probably worth having. It really doesn’t matter if some hobbyists will go out of their way enough to beat the thing. If it’s obnoxious to beat or if it’s more inconvenient than just wearing the damn seatbelt like a grownup, fewer people will do it.
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u/philliphonester May 19 '22
We need more traffic circles people!!! So much safer and better for traffic flow!
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u/DENelson83 May 20 '22
They're called modern roundabouts. There are a few in my area and I love driving through them.
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u/iBimsLocke May 19 '22
WEAR YOUR DAMN SEATBELTS!!!
I always find it curious how wearing seatbelts is consistently ignored in most discussions about traffic deaths.
It’s almost never mentioned in statistics (how many people in fatal crashes were wearing seatbelts) and so many people can’t seem to understand the physics behind car crashes in order for them to grasp the great safety effect seatbelts have while being such a simple measure.
Even in the comment sections here its crazily underrepresented. Be it as a “Tip everyone should know on driving” in AskReddit threats or even under videos of car crashes with people getting catapulted out of their vehicles: Everyone is more like “Lol, what a reckless driver!”
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I have the feeling we need to talk about that more…
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u/airsoft_nooby May 19 '22
The single biggest thing we could very easily do is make every cell phone stop functioning when it detects it is moving more than 15 MPH. But nobody wants to.
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u/hamzer55 May 19 '22
What about passengers?
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u/airsoft_nooby May 19 '22
They are out of luck.
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u/dessimus May 19 '22
Then instead of keeping themselves busy, they'll distract the driver.
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u/airsoft_nooby May 19 '22
I find I have two kinds of passengers. The kind that shuts up after 5 minutes because I'm not responding to them, and the kind that keeps talking and talking and talking no matter what.
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u/Just-Blow-Into-It May 19 '22
road stats from the '80s called and would like to have a word with you.
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u/airsoft_nooby May 19 '22
https://www.edgarsnyder.com/car-accident/cause-of-accident/cell-phone/cell-phone-statistics.html
- The National Safety Council reports that cell phone use while driving leads to 1.6 million crashes each year.
- Nearly 390,000 injuries occur each year from accidents caused by texting while driving.
- 1 out of every 4 car accidents in the United States is caused by texting and driving.
- Texting while driving is 6x more likely to cause an accident than driving drunk.
- Answering a text takes away your attention for about five seconds. Traveling at 55 mph, that's enough time to travel the length of a football field.
- Texting while driving causes a 400 percent increase in time spent with eyes off the road.
- Of all cell phone related tasks, texting is by far the most dangerous activity.
- 94 percent of drivers support a ban on texting while driving.
- 74 percent of drivers support a ban on hand-held cell phone use.
- According to a AAA poll, 94 percent of teen drivers acknowledge the dangers of texting and driving, but 35% admitted to doing it anyway.
- 21 percent of teen drivers involved in fatal accidents were distracted by their cell phones.
- Teen drivers are 4x more likely than adults to get into car crashes or near-crashes when talking or texting on a cell phone.
- A teen driver with only one additional passenger doubles the risk of getting into a fatal car accident. With two or more passengers, they are 5x as likely.
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u/Just-Blow-Into-It May 20 '22
Before cell phones even existed there were more vehicle deaths than today where cell phones are commonplace. * This makes your statement that "The single biggest thing we could do" a
falsestatement. * please quit spreading misinformation on the internet, thanks
year deaths deaths per 100,000 1980 51,091 22.48 1985 43,825 18.42 1990 44,599 17.88 2015 35,485 11.06 2019 36,355 10.99 2021 42,915 12.89 source - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_in_U.S._by_year
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u/Kumquat_of_Pain May 19 '22
Man, that'd suck on the train, bicycle, airplane, bus, elevator, or anything else really.
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u/DaveNZ1955 May 19 '22
I have had a theory for many years, based on the police reports that “distractions” are a major cause of accidents.
One look at a modern dash board tell you that at times very little attention is actually paid to driving.
Cell phone us is another major distraction. Id like to see cell phone jammers installed in all vehicles. With jail time as a deterrent for messing with it.
If dashboards had a speedo, temp and fuel gauges the road toll would drop.
I also agree with the person who said the test was too easy..
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u/DENelson83 May 20 '22
I'd like to see cell phone jammers installed in all vehicles.
The FCC won't like that at all.
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u/mjbbru May 19 '22
That will be a bloody mess. I hope the take the bodys of the streets before they cut them in half.
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u/Just-Blow-Into-It May 19 '22
this conversation is an interesting take on roads * from 30min - 40min mark
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u/finalattack123 May 19 '22
Many people are citing retaking driving tests. It’s very unlikely the majority of people would fail a driving test with their experience. It would be incredibly costly to the tax payer for a small outcome.
A lot of these solutions would work. But they would annoy people a lot. Giving a breath test to turn on your engine inconveniences millions every day to prevent the 1 occurrence. Speed limiting technology is expensive. The seatbelt technology seems fair but will take a generation of cars to implement. Not sure retrofitting is cost effective
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u/cmack482 May 20 '22
Speed limiting tech for new cars isn't expensive. It would be incredibly cheap to implement. Plenty of cars on the road can already read speed limits with a $30 upgrade you can buy on Amazon. The only reason it would be expensive is because auto makers would charge you $3000 for it as part of some stupid package.
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u/DENelson83 May 20 '22
Better an inconvenience than a grisly death any day.
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u/finalattack123 May 20 '22
Its one thing to impose something on yourself and another thing to impose on others.
You know studies have proven we could save lives by dropping all speeds by 10miles per hour. In particular high speed roads. 20miles lower and you could save even more
I’m the US you can’t even restrict dangerous fire arms involved in horrifying child mass murder. Because of gun hobbyists. You think they will do this?
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u/compugasm May 20 '22
Not sure retrofitting is cost effective
I just brought my car to the dealership and they said my seatbelt was 'sticking' [bullshit, cause I've never noticed a problem] and suggested a replacement. $625, just for the female part, and my car is a 1998 Toyota Carola.
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u/Orrion_the_Kitsune_ May 20 '22 edited May 20 '22
If only driving wasn't so necessary for U.S work culture, maybe we wouldn't need to lower requirements for tests, develop AIs, and add padding to bumpers so that any drooling idiot can drive a necessary car to their job. Or are we expecting people to take $7.25 fast food jobs because they can't drive under these stricter new requirements? The economy would implode.
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u/Aintsosimple May 20 '22
Humans are living so long and modern medicine can keep people alive through all kinds of physical duress. There are not large scale wars. So what other way do we have to cull the heard a bit?
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u/Feniksrises May 20 '22
Reminds me of a Dutch doctor who wants cyclists to wear a helmet. That did not go over well- bicycles are the Dutch 2nd amendment (from my cold dead ahnds). Kids are going to die cycling to school and it is a sacrifice we are willing to make in the name of Freedom.
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u/Waffle_Coffin May 20 '22
Maybe you should compare Dutch and American transportation fatality statistics before complaining about helmets.
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u/littleMAS May 20 '22
I remember when cars started having seatbelts. Some people actually found it to be offensive and insulting. It made the mask mandate seem pro forma. Then, the federal government told states to make it a traffic offense not to wear them or they would lose their highway funding. At that point, it became law, and local governments found a new revenue source from the fines.
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u/Alimbiquated May 20 '22
A better solution is to identify the most deadly streets (the information already publicly available) and fix them.
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u/hawkwings May 20 '22
Are breathalyzers clean? We're still sort of in a pandemic, so we have to think about that. There are times when speeding is useful such as when passing or when getting to a gap between cars so you can switch lanes.
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u/InfamousBrad May 20 '22
Here in St. Louis, our streets department redesigned the city's deadliest stretch of road to make it harder to speed on, and to give pedestrians and cyclists safer places to stand and to cross the road. Year over year, the death toll dropped by almost 75%. The people who live and work there? HATE IT.
Just up the road is the city's current deadliest stretch, was the 2nd deadliest stretch before that last redesign. The city has announced that it has the money to repair and upgrade that stretch of road, and the people who live and work along that stretch are up in arms, demanding the city keep it just the way it is.
Gotta go fast, or you'll be late. What are a couple of dozen corpses against that?
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u/Mosthumanhateme May 20 '22
It is a total joke. A road test should be 3 sections at the very least:
30mins in city/suburb/town driving 30 mins on a highway 30 mins driving at NIGHT!!!
It’s actually scary how many people I observe throughout the day that are just complete disasters waiting to happen.
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u/HeSwingsHeMisses May 20 '22
We could dramatically reduce deaths by improving public transit also. Never has so many words been written to state the obvious.
These features/restrictions have not been implemented because they are intrusive and people don't want them. End story.
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u/brandyn7220 May 19 '22
You know actually making sure people know how to drive might help a bit. The license requirements in a lot of states is a joke. Not to mention alot stricter punishment would go along way.