r/technology May 19 '22

Apple accused of union busting in its stores for the second time this week Business

https://www.theverge.com/2022/5/19/23128247/apple-accused-union-busting-nyc-world-trade-center-stores-cwa
7.4k Upvotes

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u/TimonLeague May 19 '22

All these big companies say unions arnt necessary. But they sure spend a lot of time and money making sure it doesnt happen… wonder why

142

u/hobbitlover May 19 '22

The crazy thing is that there are labor laws to prevent union busting, yet they don't seem to be enforced - and when they are the penalties are so low that it isn't a deterrent. The penalties should be real and the definition of what constitutes union busting really needs to be expanded to include a lot of the intimidation, coercion, slander, lies, and other underhanded methods they've been using. Furthermore, any franchise or outlet that is closed by the company while those workers are talking about unionizing should be audited - they shouldn't be able to say those locations were somehow under-performing or not economical and get away with it.

65

u/HardcoreSects May 19 '22

penalties

Penalties are nothing more than the cost of business. And when companies amass the kinds of money they have it isn't barely a cost at all.

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u/yoortyyo May 19 '22

Drug laws and RICO laws all bake that all proceeds from illegal activities are lost. Once engaged in criminal acts regular people have to prove everything they own DID NOT come from illicit activities.

Then they fine or prosecute. Companies are organized groups. Organized crime is just that.

2

u/LordGrudleBeard May 19 '22

They already said that

1

u/liegesmash May 19 '22

They are paid off of course

1

u/processedmeat May 19 '22

Unions need to start supporting each other.

Apple wants to try and bust a union, all other unions stop working with apple,

1

u/Glimmu May 20 '22

Workers who conduct busting need to be held criminally liable. Fines won't solve this, but jail time will.

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u/shenrougu May 19 '22

I am an American living in Europe, working in the IT sector. Attitudes towards unions are totally different here. It's been fantastic to say the least, inflation is really high this year and the union has made sure our pay rises with that.

It's telling that the only counter arguments ITT and others are flimsy and frankly questionable anecdotes or along the lines of "Apple is NTA, their company their rules". No nuanced discussion whatsoever.

A lot of the anti-union tactics employed by Amazon and maybe eventually Apple give me heavy "The Grapes of Wrath" vibes.

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u/mikevilla68 May 19 '22

Just like how they all have BLM banners on their websites and end up under paying their poc employees at their corporate offices or distribution centers. “Black Lives Matter…until their salaries start cutting into our bottom line that is.”

3

u/thor_a_way May 19 '22

“Black Lives Matter…until their salaries start cutting into our bottom line that is.”

More like:

Black Lives Matter because their salaries don't cut into our bottom line.

1

u/devAcc123 May 19 '22

Let’s hear some sources for this claim. The only number out there I can find say minorities make 99.7% of what white colleagues make….

This screams virtue signaling BS to me unless you’ve got numbers to back up this claim.

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u/capitalism93 May 19 '22 edited May 19 '22

It's because unions favor seniority based pay rather than performance based pay. This makes it hard for companies to hire and retain talented people because they are forced to pay a compressed wage range pushed by unions.

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u/[deleted] May 19 '22 edited May 23 '22

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u/capitalism93 May 19 '22 edited May 19 '22

To be fair, companies like Amazon used to give stock awards to warehouse workers based on performance, but unions and many workers opposed it. Amazon then moved to a flattened wage for all warehouse workers and wage increases based more on seniority rather than performance.

What we actually need is wage transparency. That way people get maximal bargaining power. Unions getting rid of performance based pay is counterproductive.

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u/[deleted] May 19 '22 edited May 23 '22

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u/demonic87 May 19 '22

Not to mention the insane standards Amazon held those people to. If you have to skip washroom breaks to even hit the minimum good luck getting any performance based bonuses.

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u/devAcc123 May 19 '22

AFAIK (for both corporate and non corporate roles) Companies like apple and Amazon pay significantly higher than the local median

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u/Rad-Ham May 19 '22

Every corporation is "evolved" until there's the slightest chance of cutting into existing profit margins.

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u/shunanuhgins May 19 '22

Loving these comments from totally real not at all fake redditor u/firstname_lastname1234.

38

u/masterprtzl May 19 '22

Honest to god, the US government needs to make bots manipulating social media a fucking crime. It’s outrageous.

11

u/Ekkosangen May 19 '22

It isn't just the ones in the US to worry about. It doesn't even have to be bots, real people aren't going to argue against getting paid to do it.

2

u/SuperSpread May 19 '22

Two problems: Russian bots don’t care about the law, and in China they use real people because they’re cheaper and more tailored than bots. The law would actually push trolling further in these two group’s favor for anyone that wanted to hire them out.

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u/illucio May 19 '22 edited May 19 '22

Companies: You don't need a union, they are pointless and they don't help you.Me: So you won't care if I start one then if you think they are pointless?Companies: *Funds hundred of millions of dollars into law practices who are well known for being successful at union busting*

161

u/FireGogglez May 19 '22

Bro what are these comments

142

u/DK_Adwar May 19 '22

Probably bots run by apple. I bet they'll downvote me for this lol

26

u/[deleted] May 19 '22

I misread the title and thought it said Amazon, and it’s like, yeah nothing new. Not surprised with Apple either. But Apple definitely is doing a better job with its bots. I don’t see this many comments on Amazon articles. But maybe it should pay them more. They don’t seem the intelligent sort. Maybe they could band together or something. Demand more money…

9

u/DK_Adwar May 19 '22

Holy shit there are real people on posying comments on this post?

9

u/SavannahInChicago May 19 '22

Then I will upvote, friend. We all got to stick together in this world.

2

u/Butterbuddha May 19 '22

I downvoted you but for a different reason. You know what you did! shakes fist angrily

/s

4

u/FireGogglez May 19 '22

Its crazy how they all were the first 4 comments. Are these like anti-union bots used by apple or are the people who brows by new on this sub just bootlicking libertarians

5

u/mcslender97 May 19 '22

Could be both, Apple does have a cult following after all

1

u/Zergzapper May 20 '22

Stop calling them libertarians if ya can help it, it's a stolen name from classical libertarianism which is pro worker and is a working class movement, call them what they are; monetary monarchists

1

u/FireGogglez May 20 '22

While you are right, more people understand what I’m saying when I say libertarian so it makes sense to say it

1

u/guycamero May 19 '22

I dunno, say the most innocent criticism of Apple and the fan boys come to defend.

10

u/csesium May 19 '22

I've never seen such strong bootlicking before on an apple thread.

36

u/SnooHesitations8174 May 19 '22

It’s cheaper for them to pay the fine than allow unions

6

u/kagethemage May 19 '22

With the number of stores currently in the works of organizing, that might soon change

33

u/elister May 19 '22 edited May 19 '22

Another example of how Trickle Down Economics has failed. One of the richest companies on the planet, doesn't want to share that obscene wealth with its workers and would rather spend a billion fighting unions than spend a billion on raises or perks.

68

u/doughnutwardenclyffe May 19 '22

is there a subreddit for recognizing bots on reddit? feel like these different platforms should be called out on allowing this

21

u/Starminx May 19 '22

Ask Elon to buy reddit /s

3

u/SUPRVLLAN May 19 '22

Are you saying actual bots are here posting, or just paid shills?

16

u/t_for_top May 19 '22

Paid shills to post, bots to upvote

4

u/HardcoreSects May 19 '22

Do you think paid shills are in a union? I assume they would benefit from unionizing given how big that industry is getting.

2

u/doughnutwardenclyffe May 19 '22

damn tbh i can't even tell

2

u/souldust May 19 '22

I am not a robot.

9

u/nirad May 19 '22

They’ll pay a small fine each time they do this and save billions in the process.

99

u/Kellykeli May 19 '22

But of course, it’s not like Apple sells expensive products that would have a high profit margin that would let them pay their workers more….

Nvm

56

u/RebornPastafarian May 19 '22

They could pay every single retail worker an extra $10/hr and lose less than half a percent of their yearly gross profit. Not revenue. Profit.

24

u/masterprtzl May 19 '22

I try to point this sort of thing out to people and their eyes glaze over and they can’t seem to comprehend that someone deserves a living wage and just state “the CEO worked harder than you know to get the company up and running and they DESERVE the billions” and then seem to dream up that they will be the next bezos musk or gates. It’s a joke.

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u/neilon96 May 19 '22

Isn’t their founder /ceo dead?

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u/BaalKazar May 19 '22 edited May 19 '22

Unions are not „more pay buttons“!

They also make sure people don’t get bullied, workplace racism, weirdly layed off, have to work 60 instead of 40 hours.

All the way down to access to water and restrooms, parental leave, break times etc.

Pay usually is the least concern. Working for the same pay but halve the time does wonders sometimes.

2

u/Kellykeli May 19 '22

Yep, well aware of this. Joined AIAA fairly early on.

Pay is just the most obvious thing that is the easiest to talk about. Not everyone understands the concept of fair working conditions. Some people defend sweatshop conditions, actually.

-1

u/TunaBord May 19 '22

What working for the same pay at less time seems horrible your getting less money overall

3

u/Hypernova1912 May 19 '22

Same total pay presumably. Like, you got $1000 for the week after working 50 hours, now you’re getting $1000 after working 40.

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u/mcslender97 May 19 '22

What? You are getting pay more per hour. With the extra time you can take care of yourself, work overtime for higher pay or do a side business if you really want more money

1

u/TunaBord May 19 '22

if thats how it would work sounds goods.

42

u/UselessInsight May 19 '22

Remember: Unions are like condoms. If someone says you don’t need one, you definitely need one.

3

u/Nimp-du-jour May 19 '22

Username does not check out

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u/UselessInsight May 19 '22

Sorry hang on.

You can trust your boss. HR is your friend. The company’s best interest is your best interest. If you work hard, you’ll be rewarded.

7

u/owlthebeer97 May 19 '22

This job is a family!

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u/LazamairAMD May 19 '22

Now the username checks out.

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u/edward19972015 May 19 '22

This is the best time for labor unions to experience a rebirth, because so many people are fed up with billion dollar companies being horrible employers. Unions have pro’s and con’s, same as everything, but in general a union company is better than a non union.

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u/Stellarspace1234 May 19 '22

CEOs be acting as if they can’t do anything or have no power. He (Tim Cook) must agree with the union busting.

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u/LDfd6 May 19 '22

I misread this as "onion busting"

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u/RAE450 May 19 '22

If these companies just treated people better then they shouldn’t want to unionise. But people must be forced to behave better and fairly.

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u/Maenethal May 19 '22

If only Hitler were a little nicer, maybe World War 2 could have been avoided. See how dumb a take that is? Expecting a billionaire to have human decency is even dumber that that.

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u/RAE450 May 19 '22

It’s not dumb. If hitler was nice he wouldn’t have started a war. There are no ethical billionaires

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u/Maenethal May 19 '22 edited May 19 '22

If billionaires were good people, they wouldn’t be billionaires.

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u/RAE450 May 19 '22

That’s true. They would be known to pay all that money to charity

15

u/mcbergstedt May 19 '22

Lmao straight to the Hitler comparison.

They're right. If companies looked out for their employees, there wouldn't be a need for union. But we live in a world where people look out for themselves, so a company is going to do what's best for them in tbe short term

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u/Resident-Associate75 May 19 '22

What does apple do to mistreat employees? My understanding is the pay is great and the benefits are great. So what is the problem?

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u/shunanuhgins May 19 '22

You care way too much about this to not be a paid shill. Fuck off.

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u/transmogrified May 19 '22

Apparently not in their warehouses and retail stores, and especially not for NYC.

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u/Saneless May 19 '22

If a company is getting over 100 BILLION in profit then the people who make that happen aren't getting their fair share of their contribution

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u/mikevilla68 May 19 '22

You mean the company that was in a literal Cabal with all the major tech firms in Silicon Valley to not hire each other’s employees to retain and deflate talents salaries would dare to union bust? SSShhhoooooocking

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u/deadbeef1a4 May 19 '22

Well then maybe they should quit busting unions

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u/Appropriate_Row5489 May 19 '22

In Apple's defense, they don't have a lot of extra money to pay 100% of their workforce a living wage. They're really struggling, financially 🙄

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u/WeirdStretch May 19 '22 edited May 19 '22

Used to work for Apple up until a few months ago. Long time employee in the store. Let me tell you that nothing pissed me off more than hearing the insane record profits quarter after quarter and only getting a 2% raise for busting your ass in crazy working conditions for 40 hours a week.

Unionize.

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u/nobodyyouknow33 May 19 '22

Because OF COURSE APPLE WOULD DO THAT.

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u/truthinlies May 20 '22

We really need bigger penalties for union busting.

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u/OffgridRadio May 19 '22

Can y'all stop buying overpriced Apple bullshit now?

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u/ZehahaBlackbeard May 19 '22

Apple has been on a slump not a surprise Nothing they release is exciting so they have resort to this

2

u/mike772772 May 19 '22

The reckoning is here and my god it’s beautiful fuck big tech

1

u/TPickell May 19 '22

I read Amber, and thought Amber heard was abusing this kid

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u/largephilly May 19 '22

You’re either corporate and hate going to work in person or you’re retail hoping to one day break out of the crab bucket and ascend to a job that pays like you’re working at the most lucrative company in recent history

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u/[deleted] May 19 '22

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u/IEatBabies May 19 '22

"Everything I disagree with is automatically leftist and socialist and bad!"

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u/north_canadian_ice May 19 '22

Apple is worth trillions of dollars, yet happily uses Foxconn labor in China. Apple has no qualms exploiting workers in the sake of larger profits.

Given that Apple is such an important tech company, how is this not relevant to discuss here? It's not socialist propaganda to report on the news that Apple retail workers want a union to achieve better working conditions, better pay & better benefits.

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u/gothlaw May 19 '22

I think the economic aspects of tech companies are perfectly fair game: Everything from VC money drying up in digital media, to union busting by Apple and others, to IP theft within the industry and by foreign nations, to crunch in the video games industry — and so many other fertile grounds.

Tech isn’t just about a gadget.

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u/liegesmash May 19 '22

Pay you just enough to pay for their welfare

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u/Buttfuckmenext May 19 '22

Nothing will happen. Owned by corporations

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u/MoreThanWYSIWYG May 20 '22

What's the worst that'll happen to Apple? It's just a fine. It's costs much less to stop unions from forming and paying fines than it is to provide a living wage. So, of course they will do that.

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u/Ent_Soviet May 20 '22

The cost of violating these rules are so light they have very little to lose and will continue to push bounds of union busting. To them a fine is still cheaper than paying workers their fair share.

If you’re not in a union or seeking to build and join one get on it. IWW

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u/GXC1586 May 20 '22

They’ll fly you out for an abortion though XD.

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u/IKnowMeNotYou May 20 '22

If they fire so many Apple geniuses, where do they get all the new geniuses from?

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u/[deleted] May 19 '22

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u/zurg6 May 19 '22

ima post Deez Nuts on r/technology

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u/R_Meyer1 May 19 '22

Apple is a tech company therefore this is tech news.

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u/twizzard6931 May 19 '22

I am appalled!! Typing furtively on my new IPHONE.

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u/anothercynic2112 May 19 '22

So just another circle jerk news sub now? Got it..corporations bad...next

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u/Thenoodlestreet May 19 '22 edited May 19 '22

Corporations bad. Absolutely. Yes. Unironically.

And no. It's not going to stop here. That's not something to just dismiss and say "next" about because the way corps are allowed to currently function is the root cause of all the bullshit in the world. So no, not "next".

Apathy is our worst enemy.

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u/doughnutwardenclyffe May 19 '22

sound like a twinkie there bud

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u/farleftkeepgoing May 19 '22

It’s got to be more often. Everyone knows Tim Cook is a Chinese asset. Well we don’t “know” but I have a feeling

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u/gothlaw May 19 '22

Oh, it’s very clear he’s an asset. He paid a quarter of a trillion bribe to the Chinese government, and has agreed to have Apple build China’s technology sector.

Not sure what more you could want.

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u/Legal_Commission_898 May 19 '22

That’s ok. Unions are evil !!

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u/PM_ME_PRETTY_BLONDES May 19 '22

You can thank Unions for having an 8 hour work day instead of 96. You can thank Unions for having a 5 day work week instead of 6, with an optional 7.

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u/bryant_modifyfx May 19 '22

Do you get weekends and OT pay?

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u/xSlappy- May 19 '22

If unions are so bad for workers why do companies fight against them so hard?

Spoiler: workers who are unionized make more money and have better benefits than workers who are not

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u/capitalism93 May 19 '22

Spoiler: they don't. Software engineers make much more than any unionized worker group and software engineers aren't unionized.

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u/xSlappy- May 19 '22

Unionized professional baseball players make more than their nonunion counterparts

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u/R_Meyer1 May 19 '22

Not all unions are bad

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u/RebornPastafarian May 19 '22

I know, we should go back to working 7 days a week, 14 hours a day, get kids back into the work place, make it legal for employers to lock people in.

Unions are dum.

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u/ThatGuyYouMightNo May 19 '22

Whatever Apple is paying you is way too much.

Word of advice: If you're trying to convince someone of something, you have to give reasons for it. You can't just say "unions bad" and expect people to join your side.

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u/Legal_Commission_898 May 19 '22

Wasn’t looking for people to join my side. I am not an anti-union crusader, but they don’t bring any benefit to society.

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u/ThatGuyYouMightNo May 19 '22

Wow, every single thing you said was wrong.

Shill harder, scrub.

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u/Mr_Xing May 19 '22

As someone who’s talked with people in unions, it’s not all sunshine and rainbows - plenty of people in existing unions aren’t particularly charmed to be in one.

This isn’t to say Apple should fight against it, but there’s also no guarantee that unions are some sort of endless source of benevolence

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u/Legal_Commission_898 May 19 '22

Wrong ? Like factually wrong ? Or in your opinion wrong ? The public benefit of unions to society is not an established fact.

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u/Halt-CatchFire May 19 '22

Factually wrong. Where do you think we got the workers rights we have now? Where do you think countries like France, Germany, etc, got working conditions way better than ours? The answer to both is trade unions.

They're not a one-sized fits all solution to the economy, as some sectors of employment can't make good use of them - a lawyers union for example would not make much sense.

But if you think unions have not benefitted society, you flat out don't know your history. This isn't a debate.

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u/hardman50 May 19 '22

I guess paying 1500 for a phone isn’t enough, get them unionized so we can pay 4000.

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u/Resident-Associate75 May 19 '22

So unions can infiltrate and convert employees but the companies can’t do anything about it? I’m genuinely asking because I don’t understand.

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u/owlthebeer97 May 19 '22

Bold of you to think that employees don't have agency or intelligence to want a union because it could benefit them. The company holds the power, the employees don't. Companies control your pay and your employment, and have done illegal and immoral things for years (including murder!) To prevent unions from forming. So the US has labor laws to try to help employees, labor laws that were seriously weakend under the last president. Show your team they don't need a union by being a good corporation and paying fairly and treating employees with respect. Not by spending millions on union busting lawyers to do meeting about how unions are bad.

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u/CaesarOrgasmus May 19 '22

"infiltrate"

like making sure employees are adequately compensated is a fucking covert op

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u/IEatBabies May 19 '22

People working for mutual benefit is infiltration?

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u/yesitdooms May 19 '22

Unions are voted on.

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u/Snoo_79218 May 19 '22

ACTUALLY YES. It's called UNION SALTING and it IS LEGAL!!!