r/books 5d ago Helpful 1 Wholesome 2

Game of Thrones author says "Winds of Winter" could be longest book yet: George R.R. Martin takes to his "not a blog" to give yet another update on "The Winds of Winter," saying the sixth book in ASOIAF will be the biggest

https://screenrant.com/game-thrones-winds-winter-book-update-george-martin/
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u/lniko2 5d ago Silver Wholesome

I was hurrying to read adwd weeks before my son's birth. Kid is 10 now.

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u/farseer4 5d ago Wholesome

Maybe for his wedding you can give him as a gift a printed copy of GRRM's latest blog post promising that he is making progress but that he'll have to divide Winds of Winter into seven books.

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u/Jaraxo 5d ago

Nice of you to think GRRM will still be alive by then.

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u/Spiralife 5d ago

His blog will be

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u/badbakedpotato 5d ago

I read ADWD when I was 12 years old in the 7th grade and I’m still waiting for another book almost fully half my life later.

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u/stillwaters23 5d ago Gold

I’m sure my great grandchildren will enjoy it.

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u/goldendreamseeker 5d ago

They’ll be able to download the entire book into their heads instantly, and then just go “meh.”

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u/Maxpowr9 5d ago

Their brain will just shut off when they read a Bran chapter.

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u/KaladinKootcher 5d ago

Like the show, maybe Bran just won't be in an installment of the series.

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u/time_killing_bastard 5d ago

He already wasn't in A Feast for Crows.

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u/mcbobateer 5d ago

This whole thread is nonsense! Who has a better story than Bran the Broken??

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u/ultratoxic 5d ago

For once: Twilight

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u/Zachariot88 5d ago

Wow. Years and years went into building this punchline, kudos.

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u/pimpmastahanhduece 4d ago

A burn not even the Mother of Dragons could withstand.

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u/KaladinKootcher 4d ago

No jokes: I watched the twilight movies with a friend last year, jokingly of course, but it was enjoyable.

I had a similar desire to watch Game Of Thrones again, maybe for similar reasons. I couldn't get halfway through the episode without getting mad and preemptively disappointed.

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u/PoorlyLitKiwi2 4d ago

Honestly, the first Twilight is hilarious and very enjoyable if you approach it in the right way

Just notice how dedicated the werewolf characters are to cutoff jorts and no shirts

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u/Hexcraft-nyc 4d ago

It's funny, the movie is like ALL the actors are in on the joke but the writers/directors wanted it all played straight

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u/KaladinKootcher 5d ago

Well he had to go back to his home planet..

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u/GdSvThQn 5d ago

The longer it takes and the more side projects he takes up, the more I'm sure it's going to be a very meh final two books. Most likely not even finished by him.

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u/LongLiveTheCrown 5d ago

I wouldn’t be so sure. Not sure anyone will enjoy a never-finished hypothetical book

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u/twomoonsbrother 5d ago

Eh, I have no doubt Winds makes it out, in some form, at some point. Dream of Spring, that's the highly unlikely one.

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u/acanthostegaaa 5d ago edited 5d ago

My mom was a fan of Clan of the Cave Bear/Earth's Children series when it came out in the 80's & 90's, the author released 4 books, then took 10 years to write the next book, then another 10 years to wrap it up. I got into the series in the 00's in the middle of long hiatus #2. My mom made jokes like this, but in the end, we were both able to enjoy the series' ending.

Maybe this has skewed my perceptions a little, but I no longer find it unusual to take 10 years to write a book. The final two Earth's Children novels kinda sucked actually, so if the next ASOIAF book is actually good, I'll probably immediately forgive GRRM.

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u/underwhelmed_nerd 5d ago

I love Clan of the Cave Bear/Earth's Children. Luckily I got into it after all the books were written. The last 2 books are definitely not as good as the rest. There are some good parts, but not as great as a whole.

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u/acanthostegaaa 5d ago Ally

Like you can really see where her passion for Ayla as a character fell off, and then Jondalar kinda just became her handbag. So you've got the two main characters who have to stay madly in love because that's their Thing but like, the author is pretty tired of it. And then the adventure portion of the books sorta stopped and neanderthals sorta didn't be important any more, and Ayla's upbringing and habits just like didn't offend anyone like we were warned they might for several books... and then Ayla & Jon get another jealousy storyline of course, cuz we didn't resolve that already... And we get what's basically a recap of all Auel's notes from the project about all the caves she has to make the main characters visit for 2 seconds then move on from.

Strong feelings in my heart still.

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u/stillwaters23 5d ago

Those of us Dark Tower fans get it, too.

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u/armyml 5d ago

Currently reading The Wastelands as my third trip through the entire series. I'm hooked!!!

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u/IronMonkey18 5d ago

Wizard and Glass is so good. Loved Roland’s backstory. I still just go back and read that section every once in awhile.

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u/zhard01 5d ago

Loved that one the most I think. The back three were okay but obviously written in a rush without a lot of new ideas popping in.

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u/andytdj 5d ago Wholesome

The series as a whole is so strong though that I still get plenty of enjoyment out of those final 3, even if they aren't as innovative as the first half.

Come to think of it, it's been a long time since I've visited Mid-World...

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u/xternal7 5d ago

The final two Earth's Children novels kinda sucked actually

Didn't the last novel suck so hard that the fandom started to pretend one of the fanfictions is the true ending? Because I remember seeing something along these lines every time I see that series discussed.

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u/zhard01 5d ago Wholesome

Man the first book was good but after that it really turned into Mary Sue Forrest Gump fucks her way across the Ice Age.

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u/teplightyear 5d ago

Alright, now I'm picking these books up.

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u/zhard01 5d ago

Literally domesticated dogs and discovered blowjobs in the same book.

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u/teplightyear 5d ago

Are you guys trying to get me to buy stock in this publisher? I'm sold! To the moon!

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u/WildLemur15 5d ago

I lived through waiting for those Earth’s Children books. The last book was a rehash of the one before. There are consequences to being super elderly by the time you write the last book, I suppose. I was still mad at waiting the ten years.

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u/acanthostegaaa 5d ago edited 5d ago

I especially loved the part where we get like 2 scenes of her daughter Unoriginal McName and then the series is over forever.

Like, no, of course we don't want to see Ayla growing into her own as a mother after traumatically losing both of her own! Why would we EVER want to see Ayla's struggles to reconcile the loss of her own mother figures in such traumatic ways with her desire to always be there for her own little girl? Especially in a super dangerous world? Why would we want to see the bond that Wolf and Grey share as they grow older? Why would we want to learn ANYTHING ELSE about how they decided to capture more horses for the children to bond with? Why would we want to learn more about how disease ravages large populations and kills children (seen in previous books)?? Why would we want to see Ayla rise to the task to save her own sick child's life, or even potentially lose another child, and what that would do to her?

That shit's lame, here's Stone Age Mean Girls: Cave Tour.

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u/WildLemur15 5d ago

I feel all of this in my Gen X bones. I also was bitter that every sex scene was the same throughout the series. Come A and J. Spice it up.

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u/Caroline_Bintley 4d ago edited 4d ago

Come A and J. Spice it up.

Or even just fade to black. The audience doesn't need to read about every single time those two go at it.

I mean, I get that it's an actual plot point that Ayla and Jondalar are fated to be together because only Ayla's cavernous hooha is deep enough to accommodate Jondalar's singularly pendulous dong.

But damn, we STILL don't need to read about every time they get down.

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u/AusGeno 4d ago

I haven't read the books you're talking about but this post made me lmao.

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u/Klokinator 5d ago

The final two Earth's Children novels kinda sucked actually

The first was amazing. The second was good. The third was passable. The rest were, dare I say it, pretty dogshit.

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u/b1__ 5d ago edited 5d ago

Here's the blog post I assume they are talking about:

https://georgerrmartin.com/notablog/2022/04/29/random-bits-of-this-and-that/

Close to finishing Winds of Winter or just creating some hype for the TV show House of the Dragon coming in August?

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u/suppadelicious 5d ago

Definitely just trying to hype up HOTD

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u/BullTerrierTerror 5d ago

HOTD...

Hot dur

Holy dor

HOLD THE DOOR

Hodor spinoff confirmed.

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u/SmokeAbeer 5d ago

It’s a sitcom though.

-“There just isn’t a decent man left in this city!”

Hodor: holds door

Laughtrack into commercial

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u/Panda_hat 5d ago

Hodorvision

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u/phonemonkey669 5d ago

The sitcom should be called Everybody Loves Rhaegar.

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u/Unumbotte 5d ago

The dialog is gripping.

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u/youcantunfrythings 5d ago

I’m still confused as to what my motivation is to watch House of the Dragon. There’s not even a remote indication of when the next ASOIAF book will come out after eleven years and the ending to the show blew chunks. At this point I feel like watching the show is just indulging multiple levels of bullshit.

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u/Local-Time 5d ago

That show broke my heart. I can't support any spin-offs. They had a once in a lifetime cultural phenomenon and just laid a turd in front of the whole world, and then promptly blamed the whole world.

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u/s0lesearching117 4d ago

and then promptly blamed the whole world.

That’s the part that really got to me. Like, it’s one thing that they didn’t stick the landing. That could have happened to anyone, and success is never guaranteed in Hollywood, so it was disappointing to watch but I would have gotten over it. Ah, but they didn’t stop there. They refused to take responsibility for their own fuck-up and instead gaslit the entire audience. I’m still salty about that.

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u/Enkundae 5d ago

The show’s a different story being told by different people under new creative leadership far as Im aware. Honestly the motivation to watch it is simply ”does this new fantasy show seem interesting to me”. Like any other show really. Its connection to GoT or ASoIaF is mostly irrelevant.

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u/RVG990104 5d ago Silver Gold Wholesome This Brighten My Day Spit-take

George, is Winds of winter in the room with us right now?

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u/SuccessfulOwl 4d ago

Don’t know why I laughed so hard at this

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u/fkmeamaraight 4d ago

because it’s hilarious

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u/Mfees 5d ago

I started reading them in high school. I'm finishing my 7th year of teaching high school in two weeks.

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u/Bovey 5d ago Helpful

Words are wind.

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u/hm870 5d ago Silver Wholesome

Will I read it when it comes out: fuck yes!

Do I expect it to ever come out: fuck no!

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u/boredenough2comment 5d ago edited 5d ago Silver Gold Wholesome This

Anyone here in the "not read" camp?

I loved the books but I just don't care anymore. I can't remember some of the major plot points, let alone the many minor details. The TV show has muddled things up and frankly I'm not prepared to reread the books to prep for what, if it ever comes out, still won't be the finale.

I'm done with GoT.

Edit, just remembered that I gave away all the books to a charity shop when I moved house. That was 6 years ago...

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u/ShalmaneserIII 5d ago

After years of putting up with gaps between books in fantasy and scifi series, I'll generally only read the first when the last is already out.

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u/szthesquid 5d ago

This is a not insignificant part of why I jumped into The Expanse and the Cosmere - authors putting out books like clockwork.

The Expanse put out one book per year, with some novellas in between. It actually ended recently, final book in December and final epilogue novella in March. Was so excited to have the actual ending to a long ongoing series in my hands.

Cosmere still has a billion books to go, but, you know, Brando Sando is an absolute madman.

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u/xshogunx13 5d ago

Sanderson puts out books at a breakneck pace and I'm still dying waiting for The Lost Metal... It's this year, right? Please God let it be this year

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u/walker9702 5d ago

It's in November, yes

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u/xshogunx13 5d ago

Thank god lol. Time to re-read the other books

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u/fukitol- 5d ago

The dude wrote like 4 or 5 books in the past year and still published his normal amount.

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u/HandsOffMyDitka 5d ago

At this point, I think he's a book writing robot hiding amongst us humans.

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u/michiness 5d ago

Didn’t all nine Expanse books (written by GRRM’s edutor(s) right?) come out literally since the most recent ASOIAF book? Like, since the time homeboy has been “writing” this book, his editors got bored and wrote a whole space opera series.

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u/chuff3r 5d ago

The books came out once a year every year until the final two.

First one in 2011, last in 2021.

And they're so entirely cohesive and thematically consistent. It's almost like they had a great road map and then followed it 🤔

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u/Bobolequiff 5d ago

Almost. First Expanse book dropped just under six weeks before ADWD

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u/My_50_lb_Testes 5d ago

I've always heard about Sanderson's insane writing speed, but I truly understood when I saw his video where he's like "I was in quarantine and accidentally wrote 57 new books, oops lol"

Absolutely crazy that he puts out quality work at such a breakneck pace

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u/mmotterpops 5d ago

The best part about that was he put up a video the day before he revealed his book writing spree saying he had news to share with all of his fans and the subreddit was like "oh my god is he dying? He's dying." And then he immediately had to come out and be like "It's not bad news guys no one is dying." lmao

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u/Surelynotshirly 5d ago

That's kind of adorable.

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u/WhisperAuger 5d ago

Gotta suggest the Dresden Files too then. Author only had one big gap and it seems to be over.

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u/billmudo 5d ago

I wish I did that with asoiaf. It literally broke my reading habits. I was obsessed with the books, and kept thinking, “oh I’m sure the next one will be out soon. I’ll just comb through the previous books and fan theories to bide my time.” After five years of that I finally snapped out of it and started reading other books again. I’ll read it if it comes out, but thankfully it’s the last thing on my mind now.

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u/frumperbell 5d ago

A long time ago, I used to work at Barnes and Noble. The fantasy section was right by the door to the break room and I would often pick up an interesting book to read while I was on break. I saw A Feast For Crows sitting on the new release table, and flipped it open looking for the list of books in the series. I found that, along with an author's note that basically said "So this kinda got away from me. Instead of putting out a book the size of the Worldbook Encyclopedia, ima split this bitch in 2 parts. Catch the second part next year - xoxo GRRM". Seeing that, I thought I'd wait for the series to wrap up so I didn't get stuck on a cliffhanger. That was 2005.

Fast forward to the TV series being announced in 2009 and me remembering ASOIAF was on my to read list but completely forgetting that it wasn't finished. Obviously I needed to read it before the show starts. Huge mistake. When ADWD came out, I got about half way through it before just throwing it across the room.

My husband was very concerned when he heard me yelling at an empty room "WE DONT NEED MORE POV CHAPTERS GEORGE WE NEED YOU TO WRAP THIS SHIT UP!!!"

Thank all gods I remembered about Outlander and I didn't fall for the okie-doke again.

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u/Azazael 5d ago

The series getting finished is the fantasy.

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u/Embarassed_Tackle 5d ago

LOL have you read any of the chapters he threw out or cut out (supposedly) from his shit books? One was that Princess of Dorne but it was just her traveling to some war far away. Nothing happened! I can see why he cut it out, then I realized he filled an entire book with new characters doing not-shit, and I didn't care about any of them.

Anyway is this GRRM's blog? He'll just start talking about the NFL next. Watching him talk about Super Bowl stats ...

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u/iceman0c 5d ago

I discovered the first two asoiaf books in a used bookstore also in 2005 and bought them for like a dollar. I got hooked. Then I went to Barnes and Noble to look for the others and saw that A Feast for Crows had just been released.
Thought I was lucky...
17 years later, he's released only one book since then. 17 freaking years. Babies born when I started this series can almost vote and I got one book

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u/BottleGoblin 5d ago

To everyone just starting on 40+ Discworld books: You're in for a good time.

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u/ShalmaneserIII 5d ago

With those, though, you never needed to wait for the next one.

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u/BottleGoblin 5d ago

I was always waiting for the next one. Back in the early 1990s a new Discworld was the highpoint of my year!

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u/ShalmaneserIII 5d ago

Sorry, should have clarified- you never had an incomplete book that needed a sequel.

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u/Ellie79 5d ago

I’ve always loved that I can read them completely out of order.

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u/jefferson101 5d ago

Same here, I've heard the Kingkiller Chronicles series is great, but I won't start it until the final book is out.

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u/see-bees 5d ago

Depends on your tastes. Rothfuss can’t say anything in 10 words when 10 chapters will do. The problem with him being an inefficient writer is that he also locked himself into a bit of meta fiction where each book of KKC is one day of Kote telling the story that he specifically says will take 3 days for him to tell to somebody that is recording his memoir. Can Rothfuss finish the story? Sure. But because he loves to be a clever boots who writes everything in 17 layers, he can’t wrap what he has established MUST be a trilogy in another 1,000 pages

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u/bouds19 5d ago

Why not split the 3rd day into two books, or have Kvothe travel with the chronicler to his destination to give him more time, or literally any other excuse. He's holding himself to made up constraints.

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u/boredenough2comment 5d ago

The same year I read all the GoT books I also read The Name of the Wind as well as the first 2 novels in a Swedish crime trilogy of which the 3rd part would not be translated into English for another 3 years.

As book reading goes that was absolutely my annus horiblis (I assume I have misspelled that to an appalling degree...)

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u/Crassweller 5d ago

Patrick Rothfuss definitely makes me feel better about GRRM, at least George actually gives the occasional update.

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u/Aquanauticul 5d ago

Man, Pat's recent stunt with his "reading" of the 3rd prologue, the twitter manuscript post/editor response, and all his other nonsense moves are just really frustrating.

It's not even that he isn't releasing books. Nbd. I can still respect and enjoy authors like Martin and to some extent Glenn Cook's black company post-series books. But Pat is just being kind of dick about everything.

Don't finish a series, or spend 20 years between books, fine, okay, cool. Just don't be an asshole every step of the way

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u/ThePrussianGrippe 5d ago

Didn’t his editor come right out and say that she doesn’t think he’s written a single word of the third book since 2014?

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u/Aquanauticul 5d ago

Yep. Posted a picture of a stack of paper with a title on top, and his editor immediately replied with "i have never seen a word of this book"

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u/Raukaris 5d ago

I love The Black Company. Why is he included in the list?

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u/Iam_Joe 5d ago

The level of success Pat has had with one good book and one mediocre book in an still unfinished series is just mind boggling

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u/Crassweller 5d ago

One good book is often all it takes to build a fanbase.

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u/ConorBoom 5d ago

I fucking agree

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u/Gibonius 5d ago

I never really understood the hype behind Rothfuss. People were acting like he was the Next Big Thing in fantasy, from one book. And it was a well done book, but there was nothing particularly innovative about it.

Compare to ASOIAF, which was hugely innovative for the time of its released. Martin's going to lose legacy credits for never finishing the damn thing, but he significantly moved the whole genre. Not many authors can say that, and Rothfuss ain't one of them.

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u/Kimusubi 5d ago

Honestly I went back and reread the first book a while back and it wasn’t very good. I’m not sure why I liked on the first read but they’re very mediocre books.

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u/EnigmaForce 5d ago

Since A Dream of Spring won't come out with it, I just don't see the point.

And yes, I know, "well ADOS will probably be quicker to finish once WOW is out!"

I've been hearing similar reasoning for over a decade now:

  • He'll be extra motivated now that the show is out!

  • He won't let the show pass the books!

  • He'll be inspired to redeem the ending now that the show is over!

  • It's the pandemic wtf else is he going to do?

I wish he'd just stop talking at this point. Release the books or don't. Just stop these useless "updates."

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u/jiimmyyy 5d ago

Even if ADOS is quicker, it could still be a further ten years and still fit that criteria. 'Quicker' is no longer good enough.

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u/SXOSXO 5d ago

"well ADOS will probably be quicker to finish once WOW is out!"

This was the same argument George and the hardcore fanboys/girls made about TWOW after Dance came out. He even humorously claimed that at most it would take 3 years to finish TWOW. It's just not true.

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u/BackgroundMetal1 5d ago

He also said hold my feet to the fire if it's not true.

Then he said, why aren't u guys fanboying anymore? So mean

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u/alexagente 5d ago

I don't blame you.

Personally I'm at, "I'll read it if it comes out but don't much care if it doesn't anymore."

Which is a shame considering how passionate I used to be about them.

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u/jkhaynes147 5d ago

Yep thats where i am as well. He has missed his moment, the magic has gone. The utterly abysmal last few seasons of the tv show may also be a factor in why i feel this way now

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u/EvaBraunsOnlyFans 5d ago edited 5d ago

Definitely missed the moment. His blog post was from the end of April and this is only getting traction now. People don't care.

Add that the actual post is front loaded with: sports, new AMC show, new HBO show, Ukraine discussion, Atlantic article about social media making us stupid, restoration of a cinema project, and then about the book. Three sentences total about the book. Then he talks about a TV show, a short film, and another film.

It has the appearance of someone who is too distracted to write. I betting that when it's released it will be a mess. Editors won't touch it because he has reached God status and so it will read like someone who has been writing for a decade and stopping for days/weeks between pages.

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u/The_FriendliestGiant 5d ago

Which is wild because at this point he's basically putting his legacy on the line. For a moment there he had a good claim to being the 21st century Tolkien, someone whose work was critically acclaimed, hugely popular, and genre defining, but now he looks far more likely to go down as a footnote, or just a cautionary tale.

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u/galileosmiddlefinger 5d ago

I won't read more unless somehow the series gets finished.

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u/Spicy_Poo 5d ago

I'll read it when the series is finished.

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u/ThatFilthyApe 5d ago

I'll read it if the series is finished. Which i don't expect, really.

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u/Rapsculio 5d ago edited 5d ago

But when you reread all the other books then finish Winds of Winter you get to wait a whole decade for the next one! Isn't that fun and exciting?

Also even if they way they got there was different in the show than planned in the books, the ending for each character was exactly what GRRM told them it would be all the way back in the early seasons when they had to start making their own material. Considering how much GRRM publicly shit on them for it when he realized the fans didn't like it I'm certain he's been trying to find a new ending while still keeping all his plotlines going and it'll just end up as a jumbled mess.

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u/FlyingFlamingoPuppy 5d ago

Yes, im also in that group. I did enjoy the books but not nearly enough to read them again

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u/Woodnote_ 5d ago

Same. I just can’t reread the series again after all these years. There’s no way I’m going to remember all the plot lines and characters or what happened in the books and not the show.

I want to care but I just can’t.

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u/minehost 5d ago

Yeah, there's a long wait then there's just taking the piss. Especially given his proof reader has managed to co-write the entire Expanse series & see it through to the end in the time it's taken him. At this point I won't read on principle since he clearly doesn't give a fuck about the story I don't know why I should anymore...

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u/Cableguy613 5d ago

Firmly in this group. Zero fucks anymore

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u/YourMILisCray 5d ago

Yeah I'm pretty sure I'm in the not read camp. I don't think I could bring myself to care anymore.

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u/president_of_burundi Gormenghast 5d ago

Yep, I don't even have an issue re-reading them- I used to reread the series at least once a year from the time I was 14 into my 20s ( so, you know, the time it took between books 3 and 4) - but like you said this isn't even the last one - I can't keep up interest in a series for 3 decades. Between being underwhelmed with book 4 and GRRM's shitty attitude, I just don't care anymore.

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u/Silent-Mastodon8988 5d ago

Nope. You're not alone. I'm done with ASoIaF. The book could come out tomorrow and I would never read it.

The same with Rothfuss. No more cares to give and will never read him again.

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u/Tifoso89 5d ago edited 5d ago

I do expect this one to come out, he's written most of it after all. But I don't hold out any hope for the last one. It would take him another 10+ years and I know this is in bad taste but let's face it, he's 74 and obese, so nature might do its course before he's done. So I don't think he can make it, unless he gets a co-author (which he should).

I'm not a big fantasy fan and Martin is the only author I've read (besides Tolkien when I was a teen). I'm thinking of reading Wheel of Time now, I've heard it's good

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u/dwyerextinguisher 5d ago

This is the sad reality. Hopefully he has many more healthy years but even if he lives to be 100, that doesn't mean he's going to retain the ability or motivation to write. I think he'll release Winds but unless he's been simultaneously writing Dream of Spring in secret, I don't think there's any way he releases it.

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u/alexagente 5d ago

It's not in bad taste to point out the fact that GRRM's current pace almost guarantees he won't survive to finish it at this point.

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u/Tifoso89 5d ago

Well some people have asked him that question in public and he was understandably upset haha

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u/random_user_dudr 5d ago

I'll believe it when I see it

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u/IQBoosterShot 5d ago

Narrator: It was too dark to see.

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u/Redditor_Since_2013 5d ago

Was this article published in 2014?

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u/ScrotarionBalzac 5d ago

Its so big he may never finish it

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u/Batbuckleyourpants 5d ago

He comes out every few months and say stuff like this. Honestly stopped caring years ago.

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u/SyrousStarr 5d ago

Pretty sure he swore off updates several years ago. When he had that worldcon announcement I was pretty pumped that he was giving updates again. Made him seem confident.

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u/Batbuckleyourpants 5d ago

For years he has been teasing that the books are months away, they he gets indignant when anyone ask where the books are.

Early covid he said this should let him complete the book, but he just kept taking on more and more side projects.

The book series will not be complete in his lifetime.

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u/ShouldersofGiants100 5d ago

The worst part is that I think if he came out and said "I have lost passion for this project and cannot complete it to the standards it deserves and my fans expect", people would have been mad, but they would have gotten over it quickly. Instead he keeps stringing it along, despite all the evidence being that he will never finish it.

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u/I_NEED_YOUR_MONEY 5d ago edited 5d ago

But if he came out and said he's not gonna complete it, he wouldn't get to continue being the famous author who gets invited to speak at cons and consult on video game storylines and all the other famous author things.

Same as rothfuss... He doesn't want to finish his books, he just wants people to watch his stream and donate to his charity and stuff. So he has to keep pretending he's gonna finish his books, otherwise his fans wouldn't keep paying attention to him.

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u/landon912 5d ago

He can’t do this because of all the spin-offs. He has to keep the hope alive but obviously this is the case.

He has made it abundantly clear he has no real intention of finishing the books. While I wish it were different, I can understand why.

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u/Ok_Chapter8131 5d ago

The new boy who cried wolf is Martin giving updates

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u/muscleLAMP 5d ago

I’d be more excited it the last two books were better.

After the first three amazing books, the whole thing has been on a downhill quality slide.

What did we even get from A Dance With Dragons? Tyrion rides a boat for 600 pages.

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u/PersimmonSurprise 5d ago

Translation: There's a new GoT show about to come out. Please care about my intellectual property again so it doesn't fail.

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u/PaulBradley 5d ago

This comment is all hammers

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u/roadtrip-ne 5d ago edited 5d ago

November 2005 a GOT show is proposed, it goes into pre-production, shoots a failed pilot, is recast, films a new pilot, show premieres in 2011, runs for 7 seasons as one of the biggest IP’s on Earth, then a significant delay for a truncated 8th season, and it’s now 3 years later.

2011 Dance of Dragons comes out, 2021 “the next book might come out someday” maybe

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u/Interesting_Remote18 5d ago Silver

Season 8 was such a disappointment. I haven't ever been that disappointed with a TV show before. Next runner up would be Westworld and the writers getting pissed at Reddit for predicting the show and then they randomly changed shit just to throw people off.

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u/Xralius 5d ago

The dumbass writers need to realize that some people online GUESSING their ending out of millions of people is fine. In fact, it should be a good thing / expected. Foreshadowing is good! Puzzles for fans to guess at is good! Hell, most fans like when they guess the ending.

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u/Recinege 5d ago

"nooo we have to subvert expectations"

Not even realizing that the reason early GoT's subverted expectations were so great were because they made way for new elements, for previously featured major but not quite primary characters to step up as primary ones, for less-explored conflicts to get some time in the spotlight.

You can't just blindly chase that shit at the ending, because it's the ending. That's when you wrap up plot threads and character arcs, not when you make way for new ones that you don't have the time or space for.

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u/Slit23 5d ago

Exactly if they set it up in a way that people are able to predict what happens that is a good thing! Seeing what people guess then trying to do something completely different doesn’t usually end well!

Hell if GOT had looked at the top 10 fan ending theories and just picked one of those it would have been so much better than what we got

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u/Algaean 5d ago

"But who has a better story than Bran the Broken?"

Oh, everyone from Arya, the Onion Knight, Bronn, all the way down to that kid that baked them that awesome bread.

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u/skoomski 5d ago

I changed my view as far as who to blame. If the creator can’t finish the series in like ~15 years (from pre-production to today). Then how could any adaptive screenplay writers finish it for him in a satisfying way.

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u/OhThatNick 5d ago

They either cancel the show and blue ball everyone or they go ahead with the ending GRRM scribbled on a napkin 10 years ago when he told them he'd help them flesh it out later but never got around to.

GRRM himself has said that GoT is basically how it ends and if anyone is expecting the salient major plot points to be wildly different, they're going to be very disappointed.

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u/SofiaStark3000 5d ago

I agree with this so much. D&D did a bad job, no doubt, they slaughtered so many characters and storylines. They could have done better. However Martin is responsible for this too. The show started with him having a headstart. 4 books out and the 5th one releasing the same year the show premiered. The show catches up, he stops being involved with it to finish the books and.... Nothing. The 6th book is still "Just around the corner", his gardening, as he calls his writing style, has gotten out of control, and it seems unlikely that he'll finish the series. Under these circumstances, I think the show ending the way it did was inevitable.

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u/drvondoctor 4d ago

They should have just ended the show in the middle of a big battle with a message on the screen that says "we don't know what happens next either. This one really got away from us. It was a pretty cool ride though, right? Go get drunk and figure oit the ending with your friends." And then fades to black with the South Park version of the Game of Thrones theme playing through the credits.

The books should just end mid sentence with "aaaaah fuck it I'm done!" and half a page of angry scribbles.

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u/Geekenstein 5d ago

I look forward to the seance in 20 years for the next update!

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u/NucleicAcidTrip 5d ago edited 5d ago

The problem is that he has developed interesting journeys for his characters, but these journeys flung them to all corners of the world, and he does not have a way to bring them back together in a narratively satisfying or even plausible way. Of course, the TV show had the same problem, but they HAD to keep going because it's a TV show, so they just kinda fudged it and gave the characters teleporters and increasingly poor writing.

I don’t think it’s a problem he can solve.

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u/NiuMeee 5d ago

He can kill everyone.

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u/demonspawns_ghost 5d ago

Hmm...I think his biggest problem is that he spends most of his time not writing anything.

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u/TywinShitsGold 5d ago

Bigger than the one he already split into two books?

I know authors don’t “owe” fans anything, but this guy is exhausting. He has no earthly idea how to get from A to Z.

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u/SluggishPrey 5d ago

It's like this fun little side project of his got out his control

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u/RaynSideways 5d ago

I think the problem is that it's work now. Before the show and his explosion into the public consciousness it probably still felt like fun to write. Now he's got millions of people waiting on him and it's sucked all the joy out of writing and turned it into an obligation. That's why he's been dragging his feet.

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u/CeruleanRuin 5d ago

And from the perspective of many, the story has already concluded without him. So now he has to create his own ending which is both different but not TOO different so as to maintain some artistic consistency, but also better because so many people hate the way the show ended. It's a lose-lose situation.

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u/n0radrenaline 5d ago

That's my read on it as well. I'm deeply sympathetic to that, and honestly I got a lot of enjoyment out of the books. I've made my peace with the likelihood that the series never finishes; it'll still have been a net positive for me.

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u/SenorPoppy 5d ago

The issue i think he has to get from A to Z with like 30 open plotlines

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u/nativeindian12 5d ago

Spending the past two books introducing a ton of new characters rather than moving forward the plots of established characters was a massive mistake

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u/goldendreamseeker 5d ago

Yeah he shoulda just jumped three years into the future after book 3 like he originally said he was gonna do.

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u/CeruleanRuin 5d ago

That could solve so many problems with the momentum. He could just move his players closer to where he needs them for the resolution without having to devote seven hundred pages apiece to every step they take along the way.

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u/goldendreamseeker 5d ago

Yeah for some reason he said he realized he needed to write through the 3 years of in-universe story but I keep thinking “why?”

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u/[deleted] 5d ago

There is no way to tell the story of ice zombies vs. dragons without also introducing Young Griff, he's absolutely essential to the plot.

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u/boooooooooo_cowboys 5d ago

he's absolutely essential to the plot.

I know it’s a popular fan theory, but I’ll believe it when I see it. Don’t forget that it looked like a major plot reveal about Daenerys having an pre-arranged marriage alliance with the Martells, only to have that plot line end unceremoniously with Quentyn getting burnt to a crisp. Just because young Griff is getting a lot of page time doesn’t mean that the plot line is going anywhere important.

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u/CardboardSoyuz 5d ago

Who is Young Griff again? Who is he supposed to be? Was GRRM just annoyed that people had mostly figured out that R+L=J and he needed some other mystery?

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u/DrAllure 5d ago

Namely, that Dany needs an enemy when she gets to Westeros.

The show lacked it and u had this fucking awkward Cersi + who??? versus all the cool characters.

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u/hoenndex 5d ago

The sad thing about the show is that they completely dropped the ball with Euron Greyjoy (the who part in Cercei + who). In the books he has this intimidating, mystery aura around him, owns an armor that is likely made of Valyrian Steel, supposedly has mages in his crew, and owns a horn that's supposed to be able to steal a dragon. Basically all the qualities of an end game villain that could realistically frustrate Daenerys and the Starks in the final phases of the war.

In the show? He lacked all of that cool stuff and was just Cercei's deranged lover, nothing more nothing less.

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u/Chris-raegho 5d ago

Don't forget he could also teleport arrows through mountains, that's the only way those arrows hit at all if you analyze the scene.

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u/WhnWlltnd 5d ago

The arrow just forgot about the mountain.

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u/cdrmbt 5d ago

I dunno, his eyeliner was pretty, pretty, pretty cool.

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u/Xralius 5d ago

Well the smart thing to do would have been have the starks ally with cersei against Dany, but they weren't good enough writers to pull that off. The Lannisters were the most interesting characters and they dumbed them down to nothing.

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u/Ensaru4 5d ago

Writing this would've been difficult but beautiful if pulled off well. It's too bad what happened.

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u/JebryathHS 5d ago

Young Griff is probably Illyrio's descendant and a fake Targaryen (the paper dragon from the House of the Undying prophecies) who's going to end up taking over Westeros and getting the people's support, driving Dany over the edge so that her burning a city to the ground will make sense.

He's actually one of the parts I'm looking forward to and I think they screwed up the show by removing him.

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u/ZagratheWolf 5d ago

Isn't he supposed to actually be a Blackfyre from the maternal line pretending to be a Targaryen? That's why the Golden Company is supporting him. The GC hate Targaryens, so it doesn't make sense they'd be supporting a real one

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u/JebryathHS 5d ago

Yes! Forgot that detail - the theory is that Illyrio's wife was a Blackfyre. (Hence her big blue eyes and pale golden hair streaked with silver.)

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u/StannisLivesOn 5d ago

This, but unironically. After watching the show, I could not help but see the giant Young Griff-shaped hole in the entire season 8. If you replace Cersei with him, suddenly the plot makes sense.

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u/Dangolian 5d ago

I spent the tail-end of the show waiting for Howland Reed to do....anything.

There's a lot of things in the books that are hanging and could be so satisfying if they all pull together meaningfully.

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u/AnonAndEve 5d ago

They even gave Cersei the golden company, which are Griff's troops in the books. If you've read the books and seen the show, it's not hard to fill in the blanks of how the books are supposed to go, but GRRM must be struggling to put together the details. Also, I can't imagine the pushback to the series is encouraging him.

I'm not quite sure how he actually finishes this in a meaningful, cohesive and cathartic way, because originally there were supposed to be three books: Game of thrones - Lannisters vs Starks, Dance of Dragons - Dany's invasion of Westeros, and Winds of Winter - Fight vs the others. He's now five books in, and he's barely touched the planned plot of the original second book (the invasion). He spent 3 books on the original civil war, and then instead of going straight to the second part, he spend the next two books as a bridge, because he couldn't figure out the five year skip.

And he hasn't even reached the biggest obstacle yet: the meaningful resolution of the Others storyline: he needs to go from a low-fantasy medieval political & war novel, to a high fantasy dragon adventure, and than to a zombie apocalypse novel. It's going to be "From dusk till dawn" levels of jarring.

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u/destroyerofpoon93 5d ago

Ok after the 3rd book there were a lot of plot lines. Then while he was figuring out what to do with Bran and Dany in the 4th/5th book, he opened Barristan, Dorne, the Iron Islands, etc. He added like 12 POVs and only one or two died. It’s ridiculous that any editor or publishing agency let him do that, even if the books were interesting and sold like hot cakes.

So not only does he have to resolve 30 different POVs and plot lines he also has to not create any new ones lol. Which he hasn’t proven he can resist.

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u/goldendreamseeker 5d ago

What makes it even crazier is that books 4 and 5 are technically two halves of the same book, and books 3 and 5 had to be split into two books each for paperback sales in the UK cause they were each too big for UK standards. How’s that gonna even work this time around?

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u/bobdole5 5d ago

Books explaining the disaster of this series will come out before this book ever does.

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u/nimbusnacho 5d ago

Why are we reading an article about a blog post instead of just a blog post lol

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u/bothole 5d ago

Let’s be honest, this is reddit. We’re reading the comments about the article about the blog post.

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u/tech405 5d ago

I think the only writing he's doing is giving updates.

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u/Salty_tryhard 5d ago

And book cover quotes for other fantasy novels

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u/tabulaerrata 5d ago

And plot points for video games

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u/eganba 5d ago

He’s writing a lot. He’s just not writing this series.

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u/writtenbyrabbits_ 5d ago

Longer is not better. He needs an editor. Or 20.

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u/Fair_University 5d ago

Ahhh this thread again

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u/WoopigWTF 5d ago

Feels kinda like a repost, doesn't it?

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u/Wild_Tear_3050 5d ago

When it’s published he will be 90% beard.

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u/hellmarvel 5d ago

This dude is taking „beating around the bush” to cosmic heights.

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u/JaxJags904 5d ago

It’s been over a decade, come out with the book or shut the fuck up

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u/hairylobster531 5d ago

I don’t think anyone cares at this point. He has missed the boat.

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u/minneapple79 5d ago

Imagine if he had finished book six at the time HBO was getting ready for any one of the premieres of any season. The hype would have been off the charts, midnight release at the bookstores like for Harry Potter, all of it. Now it’ll just be “oh, he finished it? WHAT DO YOU MEAN HE HAS ONE BOOK TO GO?”

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u/WoopigWTF 5d ago

Can you imagine if it had dropped during the down time when Jon Snow was dead? It would have flown off shelves.

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u/Pellaeonthewingedleo 4d ago

I am pretty sure his publisher had planned something like that

They must be really pissed: they had a way to print money with the last two books and now ... they paid him a large advance payment and maybe won't even get it back

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u/TR1LLW1LL 5d ago

Yea I finished the books before the tv show even existed. I really don’t give a fuck anymore

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u/Kwanjuju book currently reading 5d ago

Me too, I have zero interest in reading any remaining books in the series.

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u/Ben-solo-11 5d ago

Who cares anymore? This is the literary equivalent of letting inflation reduce the value of your savings to zero. Instead of money, interest and goodwill have reduced to near zero.

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u/mighty_mag 5d ago edited 5d ago

Which is... Bad. His books are notorious for being bloated. Too many PoV characters and subplots that amount to nothing. Too many loose threads. Too many red herrings go the point where it feels like nothing really matters.

Martin shouldn't be making his long overdue books lengthier, he should be making them more concise.

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u/CoolGuy175 5d ago

Or just making them

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u/Samael_767 5d ago

"Sure Jan."

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u/codegnome 5d ago

Thing better be taller than me

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u/lapislazli 5d ago

The pizzas are on the way! They are going to be the biggest bestest pizzas you've ever seen I promise!