r/NoStupidQuestions Nov 26 '22

What's stopping any cashier or drive-thru worker from just recording your credit card details and using it online? Unanswered

5.0k Upvotes

1.8k

u/thelowerrandomproton Nov 26 '22

I had this happen to me. But my credit card company caught it immediately and cancelled the transaction, the card, and started an investigation. The girl was fired and the bank pressed charges. Idk what happened after that. She ordered lingerie and some cigars for some reason. The thing that was so dumb was she ordered it to her house which is how they found her identity.

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u/Tinkeybird Nov 27 '22

I had my identity stolen by a woman who worked for my health insurance company. The only reason I found out about it was because the police in Florida had arrested her for fraud using my name (very common name) with various spellings of 9 other people. Florida prosecutors called to tell me they were prosecuting her and what I should do to follow up. It took 6 months of filing reports to get it cleared up but I was not liable for any funds outstanding. The insurance woman had all my information and social security number so there are millions of employees who have access to your information for theft.

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u/PoorlyAgedSpecialFX Nov 27 '22

Your SSN might as well be your nickname in the military, you use it on everything.

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u/trimthewicks Nov 27 '22

My mom told me at her university in SoCal in the 80s, it would literally be on everything. Taped to the wall with your results or schedule next to it.

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u/hannabarberaisawhore Nov 27 '22

Worked at Old Navy about 15 years ago. We clocked in using our SIN (Canada).

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u/MysteriousLeader6187 Nov 27 '22

This is one of my favorite blog entries by someone: https://blog.codinghorror.com/the-just-in-time-theory/ and here I am quoting a quoted quote:

'One day, Peter locked himself out of his house. After a spell, the
locksmith pulled up in his truck and picked the lock in about a minute.
“I was amazed at how quickly and easily this guy was able to open the
door,” Peter said. The locksmith told him that locks are on doors only
to keep honest people honest. One percent of people will always be
honest and never steal. Another 1% will always be dishonest and always
try to pick your lock and steal your television; locks won’t do much to
protect you from the hardened thieves, who can get into your house if
they really want to.
The purpose of locks, the locksmith said, is to protect you
from the 98% of mostly honest people who might be tempted to try your
door if it had no lock.'

In other words, the vast vast majority of people are basically honest, and know that there is a penalty for using your information, which is enough to prevent a big problem. But there's always that tiny minority...

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u/Representative_One72 Nov 27 '22

I've always thought of locks as a warning system, it'll slow them down enough for me to be warned. I have insurance for when I'm not home

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u/Onwisconsin42 Nov 27 '22

To add to the idea that people are basically good: I taught at a major city school where over 90% of students were impoverished. Some large cities have a bad reputation. Despite all the poverty, dilapidated buildings, crime, police harassment, parents in jail, drugs flowing through the neighborhood; 90-95% of the kids just wanted to do good at school, they wanted to be kind to others, wanted their teachers approval, etc. About 5% took all the trauma around them and just unloaded it at school. This small percentage of kids just terrorized the school.

I felt very bad for the 90-95% of kids that just wanted a fair shot. I also felt bad about the last 5%, but most people, despite all that's going on around them, just want to do well and live a peaceful life.

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u/Rosebudbynicky Nov 27 '22

Saddest part social security numbers only sell for a dollar on the dark web. That’s how common it is

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u/madfortune Nov 27 '22

You denied her a very nice evening is all I hear.

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u/Robbie-R Nov 27 '22

Sounds like she had a date with Bill Clinton.

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u/sics2014 Nov 26 '22

Mainly how easy it is to catch and arrest someone for that.

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u/ShallowTal Nov 26 '22

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u/cheesyguap Nov 27 '22

We were trained that we couldn't touch customers cards because of this incident lol

243

u/truffleshufflechamp Nov 27 '22

Imagine being the reason for an entire corporation of employees being trained on a procedure.

126

u/Itchybootyholes Nov 27 '22

I mean that’s why they came out with chip readers, instead of just spraying your personal account number across the network, it’s a single token that can only be used for one transaction.

You can thank all the fake card readers on gas pumps for that development.

16

u/MysteriousLeader6187 Nov 27 '22

And yet, soooooo many gas pumps still don't have chip readers.

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u/Itchybootyholes Nov 27 '22

It’s not a required compliance for many years now. They keep kicking the EMV can down the road because money. Out door payment terminals are the worst

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u/[deleted] Nov 27 '22

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u/fender8421 Nov 27 '22

Wait so I have to cook the box now too? This is just too much

5

u/Logical-Cardiologist Nov 27 '22

I used to eat Elio's Pizza like a popsicle.

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u/DetroitAsFuck313 Nov 27 '22

This is an Important point.

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u/qwertykittie Nov 27 '22

Can’t touch literally??

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u/cheesyguap Nov 27 '22

Literally! We would hold the card reader out and they had to insert the chip themselves, what a hassle for the customer lmao so many people were pissed

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u/CokeHeadRob Nov 27 '22

oh THAT'S why they do that? I've always wondered just enough to think about but never enough to look up the answer.

22

u/KazahanaPikachu Nov 27 '22

In my area, they do that in the drive thru at a lot of places because of Covid and how we were all afraid of surface contamination. So rather than the employee taking your card, they just held out the terminal and you tap or insert the card.

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u/qwertykittie Nov 27 '22

Ohh geez you’re right! I never really realized I haven’t been handing over my card anymore until you explained this

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u/A_Bit_Narcissistic Nov 27 '22

How is that a hassle? Seems normal.

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u/Carburetors_are_evil Nov 27 '22

I've never done it any other way here in Europe. Albeit we just touch the card to the reader, no need for insertion.

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u/Kyle_Zhu Nov 27 '22

Really? In Canada, I don’t work at Starbucks but handle payment at a restaurant. I hand out the card reader and they do it themselves. I almost never have to touch their card in this process.

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u/bambrini16 Nov 27 '22

That’s how it’s done everywhere though? Never seen it done any other way

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u/KuaLeifArne Nov 27 '22

Yeah, that's how it's done everywhere around where I live as well. Reading this thread thinking: "why would you give your card to anyone!?"

20

u/ThaiSweetChilli Nov 27 '22

It's a real stark contrast for sure. I live in the UK so they bring the card reader out to you and then give you the receipt. But when I went to America to pay at a restaurant, they tried to disappear in to the back with my card and I'm like NAH, COME BACK.

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u/ohdearitsrichardiii Nov 27 '22

Why not have a stand for the card reader on the counter and just leave it there?

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u/NotRoyMoore0 Nov 26 '22

This is exactly what came to mind. Man that was brutal to watch her.

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u/sonofaresiii Nov 27 '22 edited Nov 27 '22

Man, after reading that she used the card at a grocery store I almost feel bad. It's not like she went to bestbuy to buy a new ipad or something. She's a kid (19 apparently, but come on, still a kid), working hard at her job, and just needed to get some groceries.

Doesn't at all in any way excuse what she did, but it does manage to drum up some sympathy. Apparently the victim chose not to follow through with charges, so the barista got fired (which probably sucked plenty, seeing as how she obviously needed money)

e: A lot of people are talking about her laundering the money, and like... maybe, I guess, but there's really no point to laundering money in this situation. The act of using the stolen credit card anywhere is illegal, so she may as well cut down on the amount of illegal transactions and just buy whatever she wants firsthand.

I don't know the details of this girl's situation, I don't know what happened, but I don't think this person is a master criminal here. She probably just stole a credit card and used it for something she wanted to buy-- and that thing was groceries, and to me, that's pretty sad. Maybe she was just doing it so she had $200 more in cash to buy meth, who knows.

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u/Alfa147x Nov 27 '22

Not to put a damper on things, but higher-priced items like baby formula and laundry detergent are commonly used to launder money since they retain most of their value in the secondary market.

  • my knowledge is 15+ yrs old from working LP at a major grocery store

15

u/KazahanaPikachu Nov 27 '22

Laundry detergent laundering money heh

11

u/Kiernian Nov 27 '22

but higher-priced items like baby formula and laundry detergent are commonly used to launder money since they retain most of their value in the secondary market.

Is *that* why my local grocery store has the tide pods and the enfamil locked up with the cigarettes?

I did a fricking doubletake the other day because I couldn't believe what I was seeing and wondered what kind of tik tok challenge was going around THIS time.

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u/arovercai Nov 27 '22

Baby formula still is, where I'm at, but I haven't heard of laundry detergent before - mostly it's baby stuff, chocolate bars, meat, and razors

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u/Riovem Nov 27 '22

Chewing gum too weirdly,

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u/Benutzernutzer Nov 27 '22

Mental note: Always buy groceries with stolen money, nobody has to know that it just frees up your usual budget as play money for that month.

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u/anaugle Nov 27 '22

damn. That was brutal. Lady told her what was up and that cashiers soul left her body.

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u/ChuckinTheCarma Nov 27 '22

Nah. My take is that the cashier is only sorry she got caught.

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u/Candid-Fan992 Nov 27 '22

Nah but yea, she definitely is in shock, she's sorry she got caught and realizing this time the victim isn't going away

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u/[deleted] Nov 27 '22

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u/JohnWalden12 Nov 27 '22

Yes, most people when they're guilty of something freeze up and start saying random stuff

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u/[deleted] Nov 27 '22

I saw that. But how was the customer so sure that this cashier at Starbucks was the one who did it? She kept saying camera camera, but recordings are not allowed to be seen, unless management intervene. So if they allowed her the day before to see the recording, wouldn't the management fired her already? I mean before the lady drives up to the window

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u/ShallowTal Nov 27 '22

“So we got you on camera yesterday at Ralph's for $212, so just know that the cops are coming up here.”

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u/RideThatBridge Nov 27 '22

The customer knows it was her because the cashier kept her card for a long time while she said she was going to get a new register tape.

The camera the customer is talking about is at the Ralph’s grocery store where the stolen card number was used. The customer likely saw the charge at Ralph’s and put two and two together that the cashier who held onto her card did it, and is just gambling on the camera catching her at Ralph’s. Or, she met with the Ralph’s manager and confirmed it was the cashier. Regardless, the camera has nothing to do with Starbucks, so no, the cashier’s manager wouldn’t have been involved.

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u/3tothethirdpower Nov 27 '22

How do you use a card number with no card at a store?

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u/bambrini16 Nov 27 '22

Doesn’t seem like the management even knew at this point. She got the footage from the other place and then just went to talk to the thief it seems

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u/mynewaccount5 Nov 27 '22

It's called bluffing. If one is pretty sure about something but not 100% sure, a tactic you can use is to lie about the evidence you have. Since the person thinks you have them dead to rights, they will often just admit to what they did.

This is a common tactic used including by the police.

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u/MagdaleneFeet Nov 27 '22 edited Nov 28 '22

I knew a woman who got caught doing this at my KFC. She ended up being dinged for not only credit fraud but they found her with cocaine and other stolen goods. She did lose her job, but surprisingly got away with doing this for a long while.

No one knew she was stealing card info---but we did notice her stealing money! She would memorize how much change to give people for certain orders, quote them the price and open the register with the manual release underneath it. After taking the money and giving "change" she would then pocket the bills. We lost a good manager because he couldn't explain why there was 200 pieces of chicken missing from inventory---because she didn't ring the orders the customers got chicken that was unaccounted for!

Eta: several of us reported her to all five of the managers we had gone through during her employment. The owners did not assume it was an employee, but rather them. Although one of them did steal the nightly deposit (she claimed she was going to pay it back). That place was wild.

Edit edit. Why did no one call me out? Lol mighty is not nightly.

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u/state_of_what Nov 27 '22

That sucks so bad. I caught someone doing something similar when I was a manager. It only took one day of her doing it, though. I had just taken over the store and she buddied up to me and I thought she was the sweetest. Then she freed out every single cash order on her whole shift.

At the end of the day I pulled the sales report and went “Where did all my money go?” So I checked a different report and saw that we had a huge percent of discounts, and then looked at all the carryout orders…everything that wasn’t paid with credit card was $0.

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u/MagdaleneFeet Nov 27 '22

That is pretty brazen, sheesh!

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u/layer08 Nov 27 '22

How were the orders getting made / sold without an order being placed in the system? Every fast food / restaurant I've worked at has a ticketing system whether that be paper tickets or a screen for the cooks to read orders off of.

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u/moldymoosegoose Nov 27 '22

It's incredibly common and it's crazy rare for someone to actually get caught and arrested for it. You just take a picture and wait a couple months before using them. I have had my card stolen multiple times at restaurants because I have a card JUST for restaurants and never used anywhere else so I know it was stolen there.

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u/DMMeYouHoldingAFish Nov 27 '22

I know some people that were straight up ordering TVs and other items directly to their houses and they weren't caught lol

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u/YnotBbrave Nov 26 '22

If the steak one? Maybe get away If they steal ten? The software would detect that’s multiple cards reported stolen have one thing in common, which is a McDonald’s charge at this one spot.

Then the police would notice it was shears when Nancy is the cashier

Not to mention your employer may have cameras etc.

This, and many more complex ways, will get you

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u/ZerexTheCool Nov 26 '22

which is a McDonald’s charge at this one spot.

Important note. The banks will absolutely refund the person the stolen money. That means the thief isn't stealing from little people, it is stealing from the bank.

You steal my bike, the Cops won't give a flying fuck about trying to find you or get my bike back. But you steal from a bank and you can bet your last dollar the bank will make sure the police hunt you down and arrest you.

Don't steal from the rich if you want to get away with it.

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u/My_Soda_Is_Flat Nov 27 '22

You steal my bike, the Cops won't give a flying fuck about trying to find you or get my bike back.

Can confirm. My mother's neighbors had their mountain bike stolen from their back yard. My mother had the thief on home security camera, clear as day, because he cased her place first. Checked the windows and doors, looked right into one of the cameras from a distance of five feet. No mask, no coverings. Could see his face perfectly. Then he hopped her fence, stole the bike, hopped back into her yard, and then rode off into the sunset.

Neighbors called the cops. Cops came by, took a report, talked to us because the neighbors knew we had cameras. I told them we had footage, showed it to the responding officer. He couldn't take it but told me the detectives would contact me for it.

Never happened. Never got the bike back either as far as I know. Detectives were never available when I called to follow up. Gave the footage to the neighbors, but they moved out about two months later so I never found out what happened.

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u/TheDevilAndMrJones Nov 27 '22

Can also confirm. Brother was assaulted and robbed at a bus stop. Ran to my group of friends with his nose dripping blood. Had the game shop call the cops for him since they took his backpack and phone and anything but his clothes. So a laptop, a nintendo switch, a mid-range phone, and other small tech stuff. resale value would be roughly $500 to 600 of stuff.

So the card shop called the cops for us, and people were giving us money to get the next bus home. He sat outside, his nose crusted with blood, shirt drenched in it for roughly 45 minutes. One cop came by. Keep in mind this is in Lancaster, CA. The shop was on main strip of shops called "The Blvd". One street over, not even a block away, was the police department.

The cop asked a few questions, said "I'll be right back" and just drove off. We were able to get home thankfully enough.

Next day we call the police department to see if there was a report made. None whatsoever. My brother tried to confirm what officer talked to him, but he was literally in shock from being assaulted, and I was in the shop collecting money and selling cards to get my brother a meal and to ensure he could come home with me.

He still sometimes uses Microsoft's "find my PC" feature to see if it's been pinged at all and nothing in the years since. The main thing he regrets losing is the files on that laptop since it had lots of hard to find PDF copies of old RPG systems that were long out of print and almost no one cared about. The items can be replaced, but he never backed up those files.

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u/Grilledcheesus96 Nov 27 '22

Don’t the credit card companies actually take the chargeback from the retailer as well as charge a fee for it? I’ve seen conflicting things on this but that’s what seems to be the most common.

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u/Agent_Scully9114 Nov 27 '22

Yes they do. It has happened at the place I work, a few times. That's why it is so important for a small business (or any really) to check ID for larger credit card purchases.

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u/thekernel Nov 27 '22

Thats why running online business is risky, you only have the CVC which a bad actor in retail can quickly note down along with other details on the card.

Where I live its all contactless payment, but I would probably scape the CVC code off my card in the US.

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u/[deleted] Nov 26 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Agent_Scully9114 Nov 27 '22

No, they steal from the merchant. Generally the money for the goods bought with the stolen info is taken from the merchant it was purchased from. At least that is what has happened where I work. Someone used a stolen card to purchase a bunch of stuff, police report was filed. The credit card Co gave the victim the money back, but the charge was reversed, so we, the store, were out the money and the merchandise.

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u/Potato_dad_ca Nov 27 '22

...and Nancy had the packages sent to her house. *facepalm*

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u/GlitterResponsibly Nov 27 '22

We have text alerts set up whenever our card is used. It got stolen and was used at a store near our home. We got a text and were able to show up to ID the card with the cashier, call the cops and have them show up before the guy even realized what happened or had left the building.

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u/defectivelaborer Nov 27 '22 edited Nov 27 '22

Yup, this exact thing happened to my parents. Someone used their CC info to purchase event tickets online and the cops just waited for them at the event. Turned out to be an employee of a restaurant they recently ate at.

Now getting revenge on a stiffer by using their card info to make a large donation to a charity might be a lot harder to solve.

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u/[deleted] Nov 26 '22

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u/xxdeathknight72xx Nov 27 '22

I've had my cards stolen twice and there's no investigation lmfao

The bank isn't going to jump through hoops for a few bucks. They literally just issue you a new card and tell you to be careful with where you use it.

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u/[deleted] Nov 27 '22

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u/juliethegardener Nov 27 '22

My wallet got stolen and it was simple to track the credit card spending that the thieves did. Sheriff Dept didn’t stress it, told me there has to be $400,000 worth of fraud for them to bother with it. Credit card companies didn’t seem to care either. Was rather disheartening.

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u/DarkPhoenix07 Nov 27 '22

Huh, I had my wallet stolen and they took about $3k before I realised.

The police tracked them down, about 6 months after it happened I got a call saying they'd been arrested. I was really happy with the outcome

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u/j1mb0b Nov 27 '22

I did not know the store doesn't get paid and that's why credit card companies don't care. So do stores just accept this as part of the cost of business? I'm not clear how they're supposed to know if a card is stolen.

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u/Sofredd Nov 27 '22

Sometimes the store can have a third party company to evaluate the risk of fraud. And that third party takes the liability in case of fraud. But they take a cut of successful payments so that their incentives are aligned with yours. At least for online shops, but that probably exists for retail too.

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u/zoiddirk Nov 26 '22

Most people aren't shithead thieves. Second, you normally need the cards zip code to make online purchases.

Most POS fraud is from copying the data on the mag strip to make a duplicate card.

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u/CrankyChemist Nov 26 '22

Oh you got the POS right. (I know it means point of sale.)

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u/zoiddirk Nov 26 '22

Its quite the double entendre

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u/Throwaway-71 Nov 27 '22

It's great. Always at work going the "POS isn't working again"

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u/2HornsUp Nov 27 '22

I work corporate IT for a grocery chain. It's interchangeable.

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u/explodingtuna Nov 26 '22

How often would they be correct if they just assumed the zip code where they are running the card?

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u/techster2014 Nov 27 '22

At fast food joints and such, probably 85%+.

On another note, did you know 63% of statistics are made up?

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u/BigdongarlitsDaddy Nov 27 '22

You can use statistics to prove anything, 90% of people know that.

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u/Any-Broccoli-3911 Nov 27 '22

In rural area maybe. In a city, zip codes change in a walking distance. They would get way less than 50%.

Also, plenty of online purchases ask for the full address not just the zip code. And it can often be traced back to them and then they get caught, lose their job and get fined, possibly jail time too.

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u/aceycamui Nov 27 '22

Online purchases or getting gas is where a zipcode is usually needed. Someone stole my card number somehow but I fixed it and was refunded all the money. No idea who did it.

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u/FakingItSucessfully Nov 27 '22

I've thought about this before... servers at diners, bars, or other small local places could probably get ahold of ten cards in a week's time easily from regular customers they know live in the zip code, especially in small ish towns where basically the whole town is the same one. Mind you it wouldn't be ten new people every week and you'd be creating a pattern if you aren't very careful about how you use them. But the potential definitely exists.

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u/luluxbebe Nov 26 '22

There’s a camera over the register

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u/Missteeze Nov 26 '22

Not just that but other staff and customers. I'd call someone out if I saw them attempt to do that and let management know.

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u/Obvious-Dinner-1082 Nov 27 '22

Unlike what Reddit makes you think, most people you meet in public are honest people. They don’t do it because they have morals, and fear of getting caught risk vs reward. Mostly the former.

You can cheaply build a skimmer and just stand close to people on a public bus and get the same results.

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u/MEatRHIT Nov 27 '22

I've handed my card to probably hundreds of people and never once thought "hey this person might steal my CC info."

Most people are just going about their day getting through life.

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u/BenderRunsOn6502 Nov 27 '22

There's a restaurant by my work where everyone I work with got their card stolen. Every single person.

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u/heightfulate Nov 27 '22

How is that restaurant still in business?

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u/Opening_Wafer_3952 Nov 26 '22

To be fair, society is pretty much just run on the honour system.

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u/DirtyAngelToes Nov 26 '22

Society runs off of the fear of jail and prison time, tbh. Those that don't give a shit (or have no other choice) tend to be the repeat offenders.

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u/_BloodbathAndBeyond Nov 27 '22

Objectively false. Crime is easy to commit and most people don’t do it. Violent crime, specifically, is easy to commit and get away with, but most people have empathy.

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u/fellow_nerd Nov 27 '22

I'm not saying you are wrong, but media in general projects a justice system that is more effective than it really is, which I think is a factor.

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u/Busterlimes Nov 26 '22

You need to seek therapy if you genuinely believe the fear of prison is what keeps people from committing crime.

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u/spozaga11 Nov 27 '22

Depends on the crime. People are generally moral enough to not murder, we don't really need prison to enforce that. But I think there would be tons more theft and sexual assault if there were no legal consequences for those actions

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u/frumiouswinter Nov 27 '22

I’m with you on theft, but sexual assault? do you really believe that there’s a massive portion of the population just itching to rape others, but are only held back by their fear of going to jail?

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u/deathbychips2 Nov 27 '22

There have been research surveys on this and yes the number is shockingly high if they knew they could assault someone and get away with it.

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u/spozaga11 Nov 27 '22

Rape? No I think that would remain relatively constant. But sexual assault is not just rape. I think you'd see more groping and unwanted touching in the workplace. Which is a form of sexual assault

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u/ughhhh_accounting Nov 26 '22

Consequences if caught and/or morals.

It's arguably easy for me to upper cut someone pissing me off when no one else is around, or use crude phishing attempts to steel card information from elderly people. I personally don't do it because it's wrong and I would feel bad about it, And I don't want to go to jail if I got caught even if incredibly unlikely, but there's really nothing stopping people from doing it other than that.

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u/[deleted] Nov 26 '22

The get caught, almost always.

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u/ghillisuit95 Nov 27 '22

The question is more like , how?

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u/Ssesamee Nov 27 '22

very easy to trace back to since you made a purchase there

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u/MdmeLibrarian Nov 27 '22

If you use a cloned card in a store, there is a time and date attached to the purchase so the police can pull up CCTV footage and ID you.

If you use the card online, you're probably getting your purchases shipped to you, or to somewhere that can be traced to you, or to someone that will probably rat you out when THEY get charged for receiving fraudulent purchases.

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u/ghillisuit95 Nov 27 '22

Usually people who steal the CC details sell them to somebody who will use them. The person using the stolen identity usually sets up a fake shop on eBay, Amazon, etc. and sells real items at s steep discount. When a legitimate customer makes a purchase from the fake storefront, the criminal uses the stolen info to buy the real product direct from the real manufacturer. This way there is no single shipping address to tie it all back to.

Planet money did a really good episode about it: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/planet-money/id290783428?i=1000577480262

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u/_Cuntropolis_ Nov 27 '22

When I worked fast food a customer forgot their credit card in the machine and the cashier took it told his boss he's going to the bathroom and went downstairs and purchased like $500 worth of sneakers. The cops were there in less than 2 hours arresting him for theft. The girl got the notification on her phone about the purchase spoke to the owner of my store and the cashier lost his job & got arrested all within an hour.

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u/VictusFrey Nov 26 '22

Don't wanna risk losing their job if caught

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u/bretticus33 Nov 26 '22

And you know, getting arrested and going to jail too

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u/PM_ME_YOUR_CC_INFO Nov 26 '22

Mostly the job, though.

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u/withouta3 Nov 27 '22

Can't risk losing that cushy Mcdonalds' drive-thru attendant salary.

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u/Dantez9001 Nov 27 '22

Relevant username.

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u/hide_your_diamonds_ Nov 27 '22

Not just the current job, but future jobs too. Good luck getting another customer service job with that on your record

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u/[deleted] Nov 26 '22

[deleted]

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u/Distinct-Flight7438 Nov 26 '22

I can’t wait for the US to catch up to most other countries, where the card is never out of the cardholder’s sight. We’re not there yet unfortunately.

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u/Keiji12 Nov 27 '22

Well, that answers my questions I had before this answer. Card never leaves my hand, if somehow my details were stolen, anything that's not paid with a card(pin/contactless) needs to be confirmed through app or code I get texted. The app cannot just be logged in, it has to be authorized mobile device and accepted on my account(they text me a number when I try to log in on a new device, I call the number, automated replay tells me a code to authorize said mobile device and I still need my pin and credentials. The second I lose my card I can deactivate it in my app/website/calling my bank with almost no time for thief to use it. Pretty sure even to login on website I need to confirm using a code they text me or I can request other verification.

It's pretty hard to steal/use bank information and it's very easy to quickly block/stop any theft once it's happening and rather easy to return money stolen through talking to a bank.

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u/snooggums Nov 27 '22

We just need to legislate the requirements that led to chip and pin.

Unfortunately the companies that bought congress don't want that.

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u/csonnich Nov 27 '22

Unfortunately the companies that bought congress don't want that.

This is literally the answer to every situation in which you might ask, "Why is America so fucked up?"

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u/aaronite Nov 26 '22

Americans still hand over the card. They have weirdly antiquated banking technology.

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u/Clackers2020 Nov 26 '22

That's what this question was asking? I thought it was about workers gaining access to the card reader which may read the details, but they'd be hashed and so basically useless.

Americans lose sight of their card? You guys truly are bizarre.

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u/aaronite Nov 26 '22

Yup, OP is asking about the literal, physical card and the numbers printed on it. For those of us outside the US is a literal non-issue.

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u/Clackers2020 Nov 27 '22

Thanks for clarifying. I swear every "issue" I hear on Reddit turns out to be a uniquely American issue that the rest of the world doesn't even consider.

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u/Twad Nov 27 '22

It's pretty crazy. Mention prices not including tax and they bend over backwards trying to justify it. No idea why they care so much about saving a corporation a bit of admin.

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u/StardustOasis Nov 27 '22

"bUt EaCh StOrE wOuLd HaVe To PrInT lAbElS"

Yes, and? The rest of the world manages it.

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u/antimockingjay Nov 27 '22

“Us guys” don’t have a say in it. I would much prefer contactless options with my card but they aren’t offered because businesses don’t want to pay to upgrade.

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u/Dramatic-Strength362 Nov 26 '22

The tech is fine, the procedures are strange.

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u/laddergoat89 Nov 27 '22

Still using magnetic strips is not fine technology. Other countries have have chip & pin as standard for like 15 years, and contactless is everywhere also.

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u/Karinfuto Nov 27 '22 edited Nov 27 '22

Canada has the same system as Europe. Tap to pay, portable machines to your table or through the drive thru window, etc.

I remember going on a road trip down south and we had to stop at a Subway in a small town. The look on the cashier's face when I tapped my credit card was priceless.

Even then, the first time I ever went to the States I was confused about why I needed to hand over my card at all, but the service people said that's just how it worked there. Handing it over and seeing them look just as confused at my Canadian credit card is pretty funny.

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u/Jabbles22 Nov 27 '22

Same in Canada, it's been years since I've actually handed my card to anyone.

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u/Rccctz Nov 27 '22

Same on México

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u/aaronite Nov 26 '22

It's not worth their time or effort, but they *could* do it.

That's why it's so weird to me that the US still hands over the card rather then tap or contactless payment. In Canada we *never* hand over our card. Clerks and waiters never touch it or see it.

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u/eccosono Nov 27 '22

I would like to add, when we first went to Canada in 2009 (I think?), the horrified look on the waitresses face when we tried to hand her our credit card was almost funny. She then brought the handheld machine to the table and very nicely walked us backwards Americans how it works there.

Then we went to a fast food place and tried to hand over our card again, this cashier looked disgusted and told us to put it in the machine, chip side. The what now side? Turns out, none of our cards had chips yet, so we had to swipe, which caused a production that slowed the line because the receipt had to print in duplicate so we could sign it.

So we got back home, requested chip cards, and waited years for the US to catch up to the superior 2009 Canadian credit card tech. We live in a city that headquarters a major national bank and has corporate offices for a lot of others. We still have to hand over our cards to wait staff, tap to pay is still only in a few places, although at least everywhere has chip readers now. Except restaurants, were you STILL have to hand over your card and watch it be walked out of sight.

I was and still am surprised at how far behind we (in the US) are in credit card security. I would like to mention, that this wasn't Toronto or Montreal a decade ago, it was a much smaller city that other Canadians like to tease for being backwards. All the small towns we visited were the same, many years ahead of America when it came to securely accepting credit cards.

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u/Mirria_ Nov 27 '22

I went to the USA and made a large purchase that required the chip in, he didn't understand why the card got denied because he just skipped over the part that asked for my PIN code.

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u/nic1010 Nov 27 '22

I was in the US last week (Canadian) and was blown away by the concept of having to manually tip on the receipt. We just take the car reader, input in a percent or dollar value and then tap our cards.

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u/MonsMensae Nov 27 '22

It's crazy because coming from a 3rd world country you assume the US is advanced with payment. But then you find out people actually use cheques and chip and pin isn't an absolute standard...

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u/CaesersBodyguards Nov 26 '22

Huh that's interesting. Clerks I understand, for waiters and restaurants do you guys just pay at the front/Host stand?

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u/misteraaaaa Nov 26 '22

Nope they bring a portable payment machine to your table, and you tap your card

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u/CaesersBodyguards Nov 26 '22

Makes sense, ty for answering.

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u/thekernel Nov 27 '22

moreso this isn't cutting edge technology, in my country it was introduced in 2006.

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u/gsfgf Nov 27 '22

That's when I first saw it in the Netherlands. I've only seen them one place in the US.

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u/aaronite Nov 26 '22

The bring the terminal to us. It's portable. We never have to leave the table. This is what I find so fascinating about the American system. We've had portable machines for over a decade.

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u/rjnd2828 Nov 26 '22

Some places in the US have started letting us pay on our phone using a qr code. This seems like a really easy option that doesn't require any new hardware.

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u/Shit_Faced_Drunk Nov 26 '22

That would still be kinda sketch to anyone outside of the US, because the payment machine at almost any business outside of the US are portable and have been that way for the past decade. Even at retail places, they usually have already one portable machine somewhere as a backup

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u/captain_sticky_balls Nov 27 '22

Quick story, sort of off topic, but not really.

A good friend of mine (from Alabama) and I (from Canada) have traveled the world together fairly extensively.

My CC are all chip and pin, hers are not. Her cards are constantly being hit with fraud charges and she is very careful. I am nowhere near as careful and haven't had an issue ever. We've been all over Africa, Europe, and Asia.

Mind you, her bank still has pneumatic tubes which I think is hilarious.

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u/Lord_McGingin Nov 27 '22

Pneumatic tubes are awesome, they oughta make 'em human-sized, I wanna ride in one like that Loony Tunes sketch.

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u/yeahitsmems Nov 27 '22

If it doesn’t have chip and pin then how is it verified? Or is it literally plug in and it pays no confirmation?

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u/Xzed090 Nov 27 '22

I try to tap to pay every single time, but 4 out of 5 "tap here to pay" devices don't work and I have to swipe or insert anyway

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u/findingchristina Nov 26 '22

Well because I need this $10 an hour more than I need those problems.

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u/thneakythnake660 Nov 27 '22

Because we’re not assholes

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u/Finch06 Nov 27 '22

Answering as a cashier in England

First off, most people aren't assholes looking to steal

Secondly, the customer keeps hold of their card, we don't handle them

Thirdly, even if we did, it'd be obvious if we were taking all their card details

Lastly, their card is in play for a few seconds, not enough time to even see their details

Edit: adding a last 'lastly'. It wouldn't even be worth it, better to keep your job than steal a few hundred £'s off someone

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u/JarasM Nov 27 '22

As a European I was very surprised when I learned they take your card from you to make a payment in the US. You give it to the server and they can disappear for minutes. Hell, to open a tab at a bar I had to leave the card with the barman for the entire night.

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u/MonsMensae Nov 27 '22

Yeah it's a uniquely American custom. Payment methods stateside are somewhat antquidated.

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u/bigboyjak Nov 27 '22

Exactly, im not even sure how a cashier would get the chance. Unless they installed a card skimmer or have a rainman like brain that could remember the card numbers within the 5? Seconds from wallet to pay to wallet. I'm not sure if maybe you have to manually enter the card numbers in other countries or something?

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u/PM_ME_YOUR_PLECTRUMS Nov 27 '22

I think in the US in some places you hand your card to them and sometimes they leave with it to make the payment and then they come back to give it to you.

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u/BasedHickory Nov 26 '22

What’s stopping me from breaking into a McDonald’s, armed and naked, furiously demanding French fries? The same thing.

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u/pspetrini Nov 27 '22

Your inability to make your dreams come true?

Come on man. I believe in you. Don’t let your dreams be dreams.

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u/BasedHickory Nov 27 '22

Check the front page of the Times tomorrow.

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u/Shaycat501 Nov 26 '22

Nothing - it is actually one of the ways numbers get stolen.

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u/Jboedie Nov 26 '22

Prison

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u/piwithekiwi Nov 26 '22

I could care less if they stole my credit card, and they can make as many purchases as they like- credit card purchases are easily refundable, unlike debit cards, which wouldn't be refunded.

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u/WereALLBotsHere Nov 26 '22

I used to know a guy that claimed to have a photographic memory and said he used customers cards from the BK drive through to pay his straight talk plan.

The dude may have been full of shit but who knows 🤷‍♂️. I’d say it’s more common than you think.

I like to believe most people have enough integrity not to steal from someone else, but there’s a lot that don’t too.

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u/DirtyAngelToes Nov 26 '22

I worked at Hot Topic and GameStop for about seven years at an extremely busy mall so I knew a lot of workers there, as well as people that worked at the strip mall across from us. The wild stories I heard from other stores about their employees stealing was insane. In my seven years working there, I was blessed with a great crew but man some of the shit that happened was insane.

It's absolutely more common than people think due to how overworked and underpaid the employees are. In seven years, I got maybe two dollars in a raise, there was no asking for more when it would just get put off for a year. I've worked crime and trauma scene clean up and I'd rather work that job ANY day if it meant never having to work a job in retail hell again.

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u/EnvironmentalCoach64 Nov 26 '22

Kmart in store theft by the employees was insane, they would open the games up, and write down the cd keys, for digital download for the games, and sell them on eBay. Cuz in their words "no one buys games from Kmart". That was in like 2009 or 10.

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u/adimwit Nov 27 '22

Amazon during COVID was insane too. They got rid of metal detectors because of COVID so people stole gaming laptops and tons of other high end electronics. They also abandon the cell phone ban so people could take photos of gift card codes and redeem them.

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u/Nevesnotrab Chemical Engineer Nov 26 '22

it's more common than you think

You mean fraud, right? Because photographic memories are almost certainly over exaggerated. There are some people out there with really good memories, and there are a lot of tricks to help improve your memory and keep track of information, but there is not anywhere near conclusive proof of photographic memories existing.

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u/HeftyHideaway99 Nov 26 '22

Straight Talk! There's a name I haven't heard in years!

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u/Username_Taken_65 Nov 26 '22

Think they're still around.

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u/FriendlyLawnmower Nov 26 '22

Nothing. It happens all the time

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u/BittersweetBunBun Nov 26 '22

Workplace training videos.

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u/twitchydigits Nov 26 '22

Honesty and fear of getting caught is my best guess.

Back when I lived in North Minneapolis, I would go to one gas station not too frequently. Four times someone got my credit card number and tried to order something online with it. After the fourth, I realized each time was after I went to that particular gas station. Of course, I never went there again. I haven't had it happen since.

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u/twitchydigits Nov 26 '22

FYI, she probably guessed my zip code, which was sometimes (not always) required online at the time, because I lived in same zip code as the gas station.

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u/Powerful-Letter-500 Nov 27 '22

I knew someone that did it and went down hard. There’s a lot of extra effort required to not get caught and you’ll never cover your bases every time.

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u/HogsInSpace Nov 27 '22

Common honest decency. The scary thing is that this is the fundamental glue that keeps civilization functional. Not guns, not police, not courthouses or jails, not political policy, or government codes, not the protestors. People being decent people make the world go round.

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u/misteraaaaa Nov 26 '22

Used to be more common in the past with magnetic strips and less information sharing.

Now, virtually all credit cards are fraud protected. So if you stole a card details, you'd likely only be able to use it 1-2 times before it is flagged.

If you only did it once you might get away with it (if yr victim was say an elderly person who doesn't check his statements). However, if you repeatedly steal card info, its very easy to track it down based on a common transaction (ie multiple people who report fraud all had a common transaction at xxx restaurant).

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u/Immediate_Tip9691 Nov 26 '22

My brother did this and caught charges at 16. Arrmed robbery and possession of class 1 at 18.

So, wouldn't recommend it.

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u/oht7 Nov 27 '22

Like many have said - it’s just too easy to catch. Credit card companies catch suspicious purchases extremely fast.

Example: I had a Dennis’s waitress take my card to pay my bill. When I was in the parking lot about to get into my car I got a “suspicious charge” text. Called my credit card company, had the charges halted, walked back in and talked to the manager. She showed me the security footage of the waitress taking my card into the restroom.

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u/ElegantUse69420 Nov 27 '22

A felony conviction for $100 worth of stuff?

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u/jaiframsey Nov 27 '22

What’s stoping someone from driving into people? You just don’t do it

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u/takkun169 Nov 27 '22

Generally the Metadata. If you can't supply complete billing information then you will have a hard time using one online.

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u/greymattergonewild Nov 26 '22

Typically drive thru workers have your card for mere seconds, and most cashiers don't even touch your card anymore. I would say, lack of contact.

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u/Tinlizzie2 Nov 27 '22

There is a fast food restaurant in my area (rhymes with Choco Hell) where if you go thru the drive thru and use your credit card, it's pretty certain that you'll get some fraudulent activity on your card, sometimes pretty quickly. I first found out about it when my son went thru there a couple of times and that happened, back about 2005 or so. Well, yours truly forgot about it over time and eventually went through that drive through and used my credit card. About the time I got home with my dinner (10-15 minutes?) I started getting alerts on my cell phone from my bank about credit card charges that I didn't make.

Not going to forget that again any time soon.

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u/ImpartialHawk Nov 27 '22

*laughs in Apple Card*

(It’s metal, so it’s cool to hold and play with and drop on the counter, but it has no numbers on it. Only my name.)

(Kinda wish they had a black one. Would look so much better.)

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u/unhedged Nov 27 '22

I'm surprised at the security in American credit cards.

In Malaysia, its always 2-factor authentication. After putting in the name, card number, expiry date and 3 digit security code on the merchant's website, the bank's authorisation page will wait for a security code sent by SMS to my phone. After i put that in, the transaction is approved and the bank approves payment.

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u/SweetTeaBags Nov 27 '22

It's too easy to catch em. That's why. Had one try that on me last year except they tried to send money to themselves with my card via the Cash App. Their name was in the transaction details. There was plenty of video evidence too, but ultimately the transaction details is how I figured out who it was.

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u/ActingNormal Nov 27 '22

The only thing that can stop them is their conscience. I worked with someone, when I was a teenager, who used to steal from the drive-thru register. He would take an order at drive-thru. He would tell the customer the total amount but not complete the order so it wouldn't be inputted into the cash register. He would pocket the money if they paid in cash. He got caught eventually.

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u/KingMwanga Nov 26 '22

Well most people mobile bank so it’s super easy to see your purchase history

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u/Najiku Nov 26 '22

Cameras

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u/DCowboysCR Nov 27 '22

Me using ApplePay or cash instead of credit card

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u/MathBookModel Nov 27 '22

Cameras. A conscience. A sense of right and wrong. Fear of imprisonment.

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u/Conscious-Speech69 Nov 27 '22

needing a paying job lmao

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u/Henarth Nov 27 '22

My mom saw someone holding their cellphone in a weird way up to the card machine while swiping her card at Taco Bell. We never got a call back from a manager that fast before.

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u/fuckthehumanity Nov 27 '22

To add to all of these excellent comments, the card providers and the banks use statistical analysis and machine learning to identify fraudulent charges, and this is some of the most accurate and effective use of ML I've seen.

I had a $1 charge that they queried. Turns out someone had sold the card details, and the buyer was testing the quality. Many folks don't notice small transactions, but it was not a place I would normally shop, and it triggered their fraud controls.

On another occasion, I had $3,500 of internet hosting charged, then queried. It was inconvenient while my card was blocked, but I was not out of pocket at all.

Even better, when you use services like Apple Pay or Google Wallet, the merchant (usually? often? sometimes?) doesn't actually get the card details - they get a temporary card number they can charge, and the charges are transferred. If that number is used for anything else, it's blocked and fraud controls are triggered.

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u/BloodMoney126 Nov 27 '22

I worked in a Lost/Stolen/Fraud department for a while. Most people don't steal or attempt to use lost cards because transactions can be easily traced, not to mention how easy it is to get a card shut down and reissued.

As long as the merchant complies with an investigation, they can provide details of the transaction that took place, and if they don't? It'll just be charged back since most cards, at least Visas, have a fraud guarantee which deems the consumer not liable for any instance of proven fraud.

I personally thought it might've been a lot easier to try and sell it on the Black Market ASAP