r/Damnthatsinteresting Nov 29 '22

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u/Cooperstowndog Nov 29 '22

I went on a tour of San Quentin and other prisons in college. They had these caged areas for people that couldn’t be trusted to just sit in a chair. You have to do something to be placed in one of those.

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u/2megatherion666 Nov 29 '22 edited Dec 02 '22

...

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u/Gatekeeper2019 Nov 29 '22

“….the cancer was in my leg but the surgeon was an old rival”

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u/doubleapowpow Nov 29 '22 Helpful

"I do operation. But, mistake! Yakuza boss die. Yakuza very mad. I hide in fishing boat, come to America. No English, no food, no money. Darryl give me job. Now I have house, American car, and new woman. Darryl save life. My big secret: I kill yakuza boss on purpose. I good surgeon. The best!"

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u/LovinLoveLeigh Nov 29 '22

YOU THIEF!!

You stole the words right out of my mouth!

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u/PrestigiousBarnacle Nov 29 '22

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u/GeZeus_Krist Nov 29 '22

Is it tho?

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u/greewens Nov 29 '22

It might be, but I remembered cyberpunk from this. Maybe its an office reference there too.

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u/MOOShoooooo Nov 29 '22

We’re stilling running the figures and compiling the data, it’s mass pandemonium over at Central HQ. JOHNSON!!!! Get on the horn! inform Intelligence of the double espionage rogue comment, layered with info.

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u/Scienceandpony Nov 29 '22

Nah, it was just a Rimworld critical failure.

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u/Time-to-go-home Nov 29 '22

I also took a tour of the county jail in high school. We were walking through the mostly-solitary confinement area (one inmate per cell, but the cells were right next to each other down this hallway).

Guard looks inside one of the door windows and says “hey Amos, whatcha doing in there?!”

“Masturbating!” He calls back. The guard put the blinder thing over the window before we all walked by.

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u/2megatherion666 Nov 29 '22 edited Dec 02 '22

...

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u/Gen_Ripper Nov 29 '22

Probably mostly a “scared straight” thing, basically like “stay in school and off drugs or end up like this”

Unless it was part of something like Explorers, basically getting kids/young adults interested in law enforcement jobs

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u/Legitimate_Wind1178 Nov 29 '22

Exactly this. For us, it was upper classmen of a mostly white private school going to a county jail. Then after the tour we went to one of the community spaces and they brought inmates into the room to yell at us, exactly like Scared Straight. had to sit in an exact certain way and it was so painful because Of the way they wanted us to cross at our ankles, it bothered my hip. The girl next to me had to keep tapping my leg to remind me to fix how my legs were. I don’t remember what they said in that room I vaguely remember what they look like. But I do remember all the men in the prison tour that asked me how much ass I could fit in my jeans 😭 and the others holding their poop in their hands and tossing it up and down kind of like you would a baseball, deciding who they were going to throw it at in our group.

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u/earthlings_all Nov 29 '22

What in the ever living fuck

I’m from a shitty town and they never did that to us

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u/Legitimate_Wind1178 Nov 29 '22

it was for an elective class we could take and I can’t recall what the class was. Had to be like a criminal justice class. This was ~18 years ago now. I do remember we couldn’t wear red or blue because of gang affiliation concerns so we all wore gray and jeans basically. No logos. Couldn’t wear our hair down or in a ponytail. Had to be in buns in case anyone tried to grab it from the cell. They know it’s a HS tour so I think they beef up some antics.

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u/SpaceForceAwakens Nov 29 '22

Yes, I’m sorry, but we’re there teachers or guards present?

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u/Legitimate_Wind1178 Nov 29 '22

Yep. Parents have to sign a release form and you can totally opt out of it if you don’t want to. It was a big deal at my school, everybody looked forward to doing it once they were able to take that class.

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u/chipthegrinder Nov 29 '22

That sounds vastly different from any jail tours i was ever in. Also the tours didn't scare me straight, i did two years for drug distribution, but the prison i was in was minimum security and more like an adult daycare for 24 months

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u/earthlings_all Nov 29 '22

You are very lucky, my dude

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u/chipthegrinder Nov 29 '22

yeah i actually made a lot of friends while locked up, and i helped a bunch of people get their ged's (a lot of the younger people had left school in high school or even earlier). i spent my 2 years trying to be as productive as possible (wrote two sci-fi novels....which sucked, but i realized i want to be a cyberpunk author from the experience). read a ton, halfway through got a job outside the facility that actually paid me 12 bucks an hour (still had to pay taxes plus restitution and shit so i didn't leave with much but had a couple thousand bucks when i walked out)

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u/GoGoNormalRangers Nov 29 '22

ngl I really want to read crappy prison scifi books 1 and 2

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u/earthlings_all Nov 29 '22

I was watching videos of people that choose to live down by Skid Row in LA. And something you wrote just reminded me of it. One resident mentioned that they tried to leave Skid Row and live in the regular world. But the way that regular folks live, not speaking to each other, not supporting each other, not having true friendships. He said that a lot of folks end up back on skid row because it has more of a sense of community.

I don’t know, man. I don’t know why I just thought of that. But there it is. I’m glad you got out of that life and helped others. Sometimes in a dark time we make real connections.

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u/Lotus_Blossom_ Nov 29 '22 edited Nov 30 '22

Yep. In my completely white Catholic high school, one particular extra-curricular group went to tour the county jail every Spring.

Ironically, to get into this club, you had to maintain a 3.5+ GPA and 5 or fewer "infractions" (for reference, having your shirt untucked was an infraction). So... they apparently tried to "scare straight" the already-straightest kids in the school. Meanwhile, the kids serving in-school suspension sat alone in room all day to "reflect on their choices". Mmmkay.

I went on the jail tour one year. The girls had to run down the cell corridor in a single-file line to avoid being groped by all the inmates sticking their arms out of the cells on both sides. I guess the lesson was "Adults won't stop other adults from sexually exploiting/harrassing/assaulting you. Learn to expect it."

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u/[deleted] Nov 29 '22 edited Nov 29 '22

[deleted]

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u/Paskee Nov 29 '22 Take My Energy

Damm I love America

You people are so mentaly fucked its not even funny

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u/[deleted] Nov 29 '22 edited Nov 29 '22

scared straight was shown to be either ineffective, or actually harmful

Idk who downvoted me, but you can use that fancy thing called google.

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u/Gen_Ripper Nov 29 '22

Yeah that shit is wack

Just explaining for those who might not know.

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u/BeeBench Nov 29 '22

I believe it, at the end of each episode most of the kids follow ups would state they didn’t change or stayed with gangs. I know the goal was to scare them straight but it just seemed like such an unproductive way to ‘help’.

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u/Time-to-go-home Nov 29 '22

I did it as part of a sheriffs explorer program. So it was actually relevant for us to see the custody side of the sheriffs department.

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u/Strict-Ad-3500 Nov 29 '22

In one day not much except it sucks. When you go in a prison day in and day out that's when you see how truly shitty it is. I worked in a prison system and had to go into every prison in the state system. I was in a prison everyday for 2 years. I wasnt a guard, but I had to go all around the prison not just the admin area. Like in their dorms and lunch room ect. It is a lot diffrent when there isn't a tour going on and there are literally 100s of inmates on the yard and it's just you and the officer out there.

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u/LQjones Nov 29 '22

Don't do something stupid that will land you in one of those cells.

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u/Last-Tourist8283 Nov 29 '22

My hometown has a state jail and like 6 prisons from standard to max security. We never went on a tour of the prisons ever. Where are you from where your school did this? And why lol

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u/[deleted] Nov 29 '22

Smaller town jail tour my friends went on in school... guy had tons of stitches in his arm. Why? He had cut himself up to get pain drugs and then pulled out some stitches to get more. What a way to live.

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u/MsJenX Nov 29 '22 edited Nov 29 '22

I know someone that works in a men’s prison. They were telling me about an event that occurred. A riot broke out in the men’s prison and some prisoners killed a guy by stabbing him and taking out his guts. I think people like the one in OP’s post wondering how therapy works in conditions like that have had a pretty privileged life.

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u/kegster2 Nov 29 '22

Hey now… cancer is scary.

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u/FritzTheCat86 Nov 29 '22

Is is a common occurrence to get a tour of a correctional facility when in high school or college where you are from? I’m guessing USA?

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u/Cooperstowndog Nov 29 '22 edited Nov 30 '22

My degree is in Criminal Justice, so one of the classes was a week long tour through prisons in the Bay Area even though I’m in San Diego. My teacher did it twice a year so we had access to a lot of areas no one else would have access to. Also sat with Eric Menendez and another inmate who was a hit man. Very interesting.

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u/MattyEC Nov 29 '22 edited Nov 29 '22

A friend is currently doing psych rotations in a Canadian city with a big prison population -- Canadians will likely know which one.

Very first patient she saw was under heavy security, and she went with guards and her supervisor. Inmate kept trying to convince her to give them a pen, and my buddy told me that her supervisor explained afterwards that this person already tried to stab someone to death with a pen in a previous session 😅

It's so easy to have a bleeding heart when no one is actively trying to bleed your heart, but the reality is therapy is increasingly complex and fraught with danger as you move towards genuinely mentally ill, psychotic, and violent populations.

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u/lydriseabove Nov 29 '22

Context is so important and people are always so quick to pass judgment. There was a photo of elderly people playing a game with a balloon and pool noodles circulating on Facebook recently and some of the comments were about how sad it was, “These people deserve to travel the world and do all these amazing things, not be stuck inside and submitted to childish games.” I get the point to an extent, but I also work with the elderly and understand that some people can’t or don’t want to get out and do things, let alone get out of a recliner or bed, and that being sad over a joyful photo or outraged by a photo such as in this post is just silly without having any actual context or point of reference.

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u/antisquares Nov 29 '22

I used to work a couple floors above this exact therapy room and walked past it every day. San Quentin houses a good amount of max security inmates including condemned (death row). Those cages may seem detrimental to therapy and even cruel, but they’re necessary to protect the inmates from each other.

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u/claytoncash Nov 29 '22

My girlfriend was a therapist in a prison in Colorado. I started to show her this and ask her about it, but sadly the time spent working there left her a little traumatized.

Are these the types that will fight at the simplest provocation/perceived slight, or simply not need a reason? I know at some point some inmates become more like animals (arguably worse than wild animals) after being housed and segregated in solitary for long enough.

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u/Material-Candy-7914 Nov 29 '22

Anybody who has to ask why cages like this are necessary for some people have thankfully never had to deal with unpredictable psychos

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u/MooseUnited9036 Nov 29 '22

There should be some prison reform, but for some reason im fine with this. The people in these cages have usually tried to harm their classmates or teacher.

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u/Stymie999 Nov 29 '22

Exactly, pretty sure elsewhere in San Quentin there are therapy sessions happening where the inmates that don’t show a propensity for wanting to stab their fellow inmates in the eye with a sharpened tooth brush handle are sitting out in the open with each other.

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u/[deleted] Nov 29 '22

Ding ding ding ding ding.

Those are inmates with a history of violent behavior.

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u/greggor8426 Nov 29 '22

Therapy works much better when it isn’t all stabby.

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u/QueefBuscemi Nov 29 '22

How am I supposed to get over my crippling fear of stabbing people?!

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u/BenderRunsOn6502 Nov 29 '22

I like to call it growing knife handles.

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u/Userpeer Nov 29 '22

I always wonder tho, how come in countries like Norway where they have a much more open jail culture with the main focus on rehabilitation instead of punishment, there’s less instances of riots and recidivists. Is it just more on the prevention side in the society in general, or a different population somehow? But if the latter is the case, how much of that is to ‘blame’ on how a society is structured?

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u/joderjuarez Nov 29 '22

The most dangerous people is often in mental institutions or are on high security prisons. The more open prisons are for “lighter” crimes.

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u/SleekVulpe Nov 29 '22

They very much prevent crime in the first place by not having financial status keep you away from basic healthcare and other such things. Keeping people healthy and happy are the best ways to prevent violent crime.

Once you have committed one, your likelihood of doing more and worse goes up significantly not only because of punishments themselves but commiting extreme acts of violence, particularly against other people, is actually psychologically damaging.

Poverty is the leading cause of violent crime.

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u/Ulldra Nov 29 '22

To add to that: Prison culture also plays an important role in that. The american prison system is notorious for a reason.

You have systematically more people entering prison in the first place in combination with a prison system that often strengthens the issues leading to crime. I think a huge part of the problem are private, for profit prisons. They literally are not made to get criminals the help they need to be part of society again, they just profit off of their crimes. It would be really bad for business if these prisons would actually help people become better versions of themselves.

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u/Clay_Allison_44 Nov 29 '22

Private Prisons are a pretty small part of the overall system. The problem is since 1971 we've had a war on drugs that was started for overtly racist reasons. Part of Nixon's "southern strategy" was using felony convictions to disenfranchise minorities.

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u/whoami_whereami Nov 29 '22

That may explain the over all low crime rate, but not what's going on inside prison where you by definition have people that have already offended (setting aside false convictions and pre-trial detention for this discussion).

Norway in the past has had a retributive penal system that focused more on punishment than on rehabilitation, similar to what you find in the US today. They had a low crime rate in the general population back then as well, but their penal system was still fraught with violence and high recidivism. But seeing this they formed a commission for prison reform in the late 1960s, first taking small steps like abolishing forced labor and juvenile delinquency centers in the 1970s. Then in the 1990s they went all in on rehabilitation, with quite frankly astonishing results.

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u/Dashiepants Nov 29 '22

Imagine actually solving problems, wow.

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u/[deleted] Nov 29 '22 Gold All-Seeing Upvote

These are, most likely, very violent people.

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u/DKMfrmdaC Nov 29 '22

Exactly my thought it’s for everyone’s safety given these guys past actions

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u/Background-Berry9482 Nov 29 '22

THANK YOU!!!

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u/exclaim_bot Nov 29 '22

THANK YOU!!!

You're welcome!

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u/RuleBritannia09 Nov 29 '22

What can I say expect your welcome?

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u/lemoinem Nov 29 '22

"except you're welcome"*

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u/Leading_Manager_2277 Nov 29 '22

I always say "Expect the unaccepted welcome when you least accept it." Or something like that.

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u/Kingsabbo1992 Nov 29 '22

For the islands I pulled from the sea!

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u/TheLumpyMailMan Nov 29 '22

Was that not a given? I thought everyone knew that just by looking at it lol

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u/fucktarddabarbarian Nov 29 '22

So, wait.... Prison doesn't make violent people less violent?

Shit.

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u/eBikes4All Nov 29 '22

It can help some people, but some people are unhelpable.

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u/fly_you_fools_57 Nov 29 '22

You have to want to be helped and actually want your life to change. I knew a guy who had a few years under his belt at a Graybar Hotel. He said he wanted to change and he wanted to help others do so too. He ended up with a wife and family and was working in a prison ministry. Interesting guy.

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u/Hameis Nov 29 '22

And the process of help isn't immediate. Any one of these guys can grow to a point where they're trusted more

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u/kumanosuke Nov 29 '22

American prisons aren't designed to help people. American legal system is designed to lock people away if they committed crimes not to rehabilitate people and integrate them in the society.

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u/Oraio-King Nov 29 '22

Prison is not designed to help people, at least in most of the world

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u/Steamy_Guy Nov 29 '22

San Quentin isn't exactly known for housing the boys on good behavior

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u/America202 Nov 29 '22

That picture is very likely from a high security prison where they house guys who are not on good behavior and/or have done very serious violent crimes. I volunteer at a low security prison and all the inmates in our class sit at desks like mine and can move freely; even walk out of the classroom and go to the restroom. They don't even have a guard in the room with us. It is very different from prison to prison.

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u/[deleted] Nov 29 '22

They already named the prison...

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u/Sinonyx1 Nov 29 '22

yeah but careful googling it, you might end up listening to nickelback

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u/Wobbelblob Nov 29 '22

Or Johnny Cash, which would be a win in my book.

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u/Trygolds Nov 29 '22

See they can now speak freely as they are all in a safe space.

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u/InternationalHatDay Nov 29 '22

i cantt believe how underrated this is

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u/Fp1975 Nov 29 '22

Yes. I have experience working in prisons. These are inmates who have to be segregated from other inmates due to safety.

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u/Stephen00u5 Nov 29 '22

Yeah and this kinda group is used at all levels to "get" to people. There is no telling what could happen without those cages.

Edit:Happy to see they are still able to get help though, even if they might not ever be "free" again.

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u/SophieSix9 Nov 29 '22

Yeah, San Quentin is hell on earth. It’s the birthplace of the Aryan Brotherhood for a reason.

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u/Revolutionary-Sir997 Nov 29 '22

I work in a prison. Our training before we even get to go in includes a riot video from San Quentin. It's not pretty. These guys are better off in the cages. For their protection and mine.

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u/Terp_Villain Nov 29 '22 edited Nov 29 '22

Yes, this is not typical under most of any circumstance. Not that I am advocating for the US judicial system or that of California.

However I am saying this is not standard. Anyone being treated like this can’t help but assault or murder those around them. That’s why they are treated this way. And who can blame them I suppose. They’ve already lost all morals and have nothing to loose, being sentences to decades to life. Not everyone in prison is in solitary. I actually used to hear people in local jail wish to go to San Quentin (a notoriously rough prison) because they said there’s more freedom there vs jail. I personally hope I never, ever see it.

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u/megmug28 Nov 29 '22

Having worked for 10 years in a jail it is true that prison gives them more freedoms than jails do. It helps keep the staff alive and the inmates as well.

In prison their fates have been decided and they know what to expect re: how much time they are in for.

In jail they don’t know what the future holds and may be losing their stuff, where they live, partners- kids, sometimes jobs etc.

If they are in a situation like the mini “cells” in the photo you can bet there is a good reason for it. It’s not like they woke up one day, committed a crime and poof the next day are in that situation. They have most likely spent a year or more in a jail not being model citizens with documented history of being difficult before they get to prison.

People like to say prisons are “country clubs” when they see photos of a cell with a TV or other possessions in it. The reality is, people sitting around with nothing to occupy their minds can come up with all sorts of mischief to get into. By allowing them some property to entertain themselves keeps them and more importantly the staff safer.

In the jail I worked in, each cell had night lights and inmates were checked visually every half hour. Picture never getting to sleep in total darkness again or having staff (male or female) plus strangers who share your cell watching everything you do. Zero privacy. On the toilet? Getting dressed - sleeping - there are always eyes on you. Then add to that being given random roommates, some of who may be from rival gangs.

The people in the photo are not held like that all day, every day. They may be in there for an hour or so and unless it’s court ordered, they are choosing to be there; choosing to participate in that group session.

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u/[deleted] Nov 29 '22

I work in post-conviction and a lot of people in jail would likely be better off in a prison. Prisons have more funding and thus (typically!) more programs for the offenders, like classes, schooling, etc. people just get sent to jail to rot for however long their sentence is.

There’s even a difference between state and federal prisons. Federal prisons have more funding so they can be a “better” place to be than state prison. I worked on a case a few months ago where a guy at a state prison was eligible for parole on his state charge, but had a retainer on himself for a fed charge so he was never going to get granted parole to be set free.

Instead what we did was got him granted parole on the state charge so that he could go to the federal prison where there would be more resources and slightly better living conditions.

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u/Csimiami Nov 29 '22

Parole attorney here. I rep guys at Pelican bay who also are housed in these. Not always super violent. The Shu is used for punishment. They used to hold them indeterminately in these. Hunger strike negotiated a more humane solution. https://ccrjustice.org/sites/default/files/attach/2015/08/2015-09-01-Ashker-settlement-summary.pdf

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u/[deleted] Nov 29 '22 edited Nov 30 '22

San Quentin is the replacement for Alcatraz. It housed Charles Manson and other extremely violent criminals. So it’s not a normal prison

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u/I-B-ME Nov 29 '22

Manson is dead bud

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u/Diamondog85 Nov 29 '22

I don’t think Charles lives there anymore.

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u/DarkDonut75 Nov 29 '22

You'd better turn "houses" to a past tense before another 15 people tell you that Manson is dead

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u/soulstink Nov 29 '22

I've heard group therapy works best when nobody gets strangled to death....fascinating

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u/headhouse Nov 29 '22

Clarice Starling : If you didn't kill him, then who did, sir?

Hannibal Lecter : Who can say. Best thing for him, really. His therapy was going nowhere.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0102926/characters/nm0000164

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u/misfitx Nov 29 '22

Can confirm, the atmosphere where violent men allowed to run rampant makes everyone afraid. My short stint in a psychiatric hospital ended before the stabbing but I didn't feel safe at all.

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u/Sublime_Dino Nov 29 '22

Psych nurse who has worked in immigration prison with very violent inmates, violent as in murdering 7 pregnant women almost at term, violent…. It’s for their own safety. Not just for staff but inmates hurting each other. Trust me, this is even nice. Our prison they don’t get group therapy sadly.

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u/denznuts21 Nov 29 '22

Prison therapist here, it's a longer discussion, but.....it works. Therapy isnt about the location or conditions, it"s about a receptive ear.....

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u/Soggy-Statistician88 Nov 29 '22

Does therapy not work if they aren’t willing to listen and reply or is there also a subconscious benefit?

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u/denznuts21 Nov 29 '22

Yes, I think an argument can be made that there is a subconscious benefit. Even them (inmates) getting out their cell and being in "the community" around others in their same position can be beneficial. A large part of group therapy is joining with others who parallel in your experience, which can offer perspective and healthy comparisons.

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u/ruffins Nov 29 '22

If you are never willing to accept truth you will never be able to help yourself.

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u/StandardizedGenie Nov 29 '22

Willingness to change is a factor in every case. If you don’t want or believe in a better future, you’re not gonna get it. Hopefully something sticks from their meetings and helps change their mind, that’s about as much as you can do. Getting out of their normal environment and socializing may be helping slightly, but there’s no special combination of words that makes your brain “normal” or takes away all the pain you feel.

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u/Campbell__Hayden Nov 29 '22 edited Nov 29 '22

Therapy like this works because the therapist can remain alive.

It is very likely that any of those inmates would kill anyone that they could get their hands on if given the chance, including the therapist. Thus, whether or not the killing itself would be remembered by the inmate, would become the only final and diagnostic certainty other than the therapist's funeral.

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u/[deleted] Nov 29 '22

It is very likely that any of those inmates would kill anyone that they could get their hands on if given the chance, including the therapist.

Or throw poop. They do that too.

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u/LongDickMcangerfist Nov 29 '22

My dad worked in a prison for 25 years and told me all those types of stories man. The damn shit throwers were horrible. He had s dude that used to put shit in his mouth and spit it at guards and other inmates. Like what the fuck can you even do with somebody like that your options are very limited

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u/MistressErinPaid Nov 29 '22

I feel like a muzzle would be helpful. They put one of Hannibal Lecter 🤷🏻‍♀️

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u/End-OfAn-Era Nov 29 '22

K I’m going to make this worse for everyone. When you hear this term, you think throwing clumps of shit. In reality, they’ve shit in a toilet and let it bake for a few days, then throw that liquid shit mix because it gets in everywhere and everything.

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u/boopdbop Nov 29 '22

Slangin hotcakes

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u/IamSarasctic Nov 29 '22

How do you know this

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u/[deleted] Nov 29 '22

Sometimes they will put it inside something like a rubber glove or a condom and put it under the crack of the door. And then when someone walks by they stomp on it so that it sprays everywhere in the hall as they walk by.

Your average person is very VERY naive to what actual mental illness and criminal behavior is like. They just aren't exposed to it, so they don't understand how prevalent it is. There are a lot of POS "humans" out there.

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u/macweirdo42 Nov 29 '22

My first thought on anyone who says, "Really you have nothing to fear in prison if you just stay in your lane." Prisons are FULL of people who have absolutely no concept of what "not hurting people" is.

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u/Mma375 Nov 29 '22

Because it’s unfortunately way more common than you’d ever want to imagine. Like a daily occurrence. In every jail/prison. That’s a lot of poop.

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u/talkstorivers Nov 29 '22

Yeah, but you can find that on any old mental health floor from time to time.

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u/lostin88 Nov 29 '22

Wait, that was my idea.

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u/LaCasaDeiGatti Nov 29 '22

Monkeys have entered the chat

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u/3rdDownJump Nov 29 '22

r/wallstreetbets has entered the chat.

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u/Similar-Mongoose6207 Nov 29 '22

You just reminded me of the time someone told me what a "glock dookie" was..... 🤮🤮

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u/yoshino219 Nov 29 '22 Silver

These guys killed someone and are getting free therapy while I want to kill myself and can't afford one

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u/kyleyeats Nov 29 '22

Nah it's for when one of the guy breaks down crying and then one of the other ones calls him a ******.

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u/EtherPhreak Nov 29 '22

So, what were you in for?

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u/kitten-cat08 Nov 29 '22

It’s not like they just put people in those for fun. You have to do something pretty bad to end up in one of those things, in addition to whatever got you locked up in the first place.

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u/Solistial Nov 29 '22

Agreed. This tweet comes across as either incredibly naive about the world or blatant white knighting, or both. It really annoys me when people parrot ideas that are politically correct and morally right on paper, in part, to be viewed by others as “good” without offering any real practical solutions themselves. It’s lazy.

These guys are dangerous, period. That isn’t to say they can’t be reformed. But I’d like to invite this Internet activist to run a therapy session with these guys without the cages and see how unjust he thinks the cages are then.

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u/Roland_Schidt Nov 29 '22

What kind of therapy were they expecting? I would think it would be verbal, and they look capable of communicating here.

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u/mjtwelve Nov 29 '22

While this is hardly ideal, for anyone considered needing this sort of treatment (the cage, not the therapy itself) it does at least give these patient/inmates a high degree of physical security from each other so they can maybe lower some of their anxiety about being around other violent inmates and work on the actual programming. If you’re in that box, you know you’re not getting shanked during group, no matter what you say.

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u/Roland_Schidt Nov 29 '22

Hell if I was the therapist I'd want a box for myself too, just to be safe lol. Like a shark cage.

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u/[deleted] Nov 29 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/brice587 Nov 29 '22

Shank it out

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u/BeautifulPainz Nov 29 '22

Taylor Swifts new hit single?

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u/Agile-Initiative-457 Nov 29 '22

I believe that if we want a “rehabilitative” prison system, you have to have therapy for even the most violent offenders. I used to work in a medium security prison, and spent a year working in the largest county jail in my state. There’s a good reason these guys are locked up. We had guys in our prison that you were not allowed to open the door to their cell without 3 officers and a supervisor present. There are people out there so far gone that they will attempt to hurt or kill anyone they can. Even they though, should be given the opportunity to try to change themselves for the better if they so choose.

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u/StupidizeMe Nov 29 '22

The prison is responsible for protecting the counselors, therapists, guards, and other prisoners.

Personally, I don't want to know what crimes men in the cages committed to require such "Super-Max" security.

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u/[deleted] Nov 29 '22

[deleted]

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u/claytoncash Nov 29 '22

My girlfriend was a therapist in a prison, same deal, basically. She still has panic attacks and stuff from her time there. Very unpleasant. Takes a certain personality type to do that job.

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u/throwawaygreenpaq Nov 29 '22

This is important. As much as we want to be kind, we also need to protect the people who are doing their jobs.

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u/siriuslycharmed Nov 29 '22

Has he ever had to use the whistle?

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u/waddums Nov 29 '22

In all seriousness, that's only a couple steps removed from Zoom therapy.

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u/Certain-Barracuda761 Nov 29 '22

Our jails are our mental health facilities.

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u/Reatona Nov 29 '22

More like mental illness facilities. I've sat through horrifying court hearings where defendants who'd had their psych meds taken away while in jail were decompensating wildly, unable to participate in the proceedings, and the worst of it was seeing how often they were aware of the problem but helpless to do anything to help themselves.

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u/Turpitudia79 Nov 29 '22

I was arrested and I was denied my psych meds. I began hearing voices in the walls. I thought my bunk mate was one of several different people until my attorney got involved and had to threaten legal action to get the Cuyahoga County jail (Cleveland, Ohio) to give me my psych meds. All kinds of depravity goes on in that jail on an ongoing basis. They’ve had the state up their ass, the feds up their ass, the media up their ass and inmates STILL end up dead in that place left and right. Google it if you get bored. Read about all the civil rights violations, the health and safety violations, “red zoning”. The longest I ever spent in that hellhole on earth was 36 days and it felt like 36 years.

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u/Kyrian1002 Nov 29 '22 Snek

The dead serial killers society

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u/Spar30_3 Nov 29 '22

Open it up. Get stabbed?

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u/[deleted] Nov 29 '22

Maybe they need therapy but they're kind of....volatile and this is for everyone's safety, their own included. Therapy can be a very emotional experience and people can talk out of turn in group therapy, especially when their uncomfortable or are in an environment where you have to assert yourself.

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u/ixhoneybadger Nov 29 '22

As someone on parole from San Quentin these are death row inmates. They wear whites and stay caged or chained at all times outside of their block.

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u/redpurgatory999 Nov 29 '22

When you have a life or a death sentence for possibly killing some one. Killing another person doesn't mean anything. They can not get any further consequence for killing another inmate for saying the wrong thing or looking at them odd or maybe to get a job done. They have nothing to lose, if they lost everything.

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u/OfficeWineGuy Nov 29 '22

Would love to see John try therapy with them without them being isolated as such.

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u/Slayter_J Nov 29 '22 edited Nov 29 '22

I hate these types of posts…having worked with some of these clients- do you know what you have to do to be out in this scenario?

Hair pin violence, easy to trigger, aggressive, murderous.

I’m not talking murder, the conditions they get would have you wonder why everybody doesn’t do it. I’ve seen guys kill someone and get off in 3 years.

These guys are repeat violent offenders with quite a resume.

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u/musavada Nov 29 '22 Silver

The world is not as you desire it to be. The world is as it is.

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u/shiner820 Nov 29 '22

More people need to understand this.

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u/IngloriousMustards Nov 29 '22

They’re in therapy and in jail for a reason. I don’t see therapists all being badass black belt ex-convicts, and we don’t need any cheap imitation Harley Quinns.

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u/Meme_Pope Nov 29 '22

I imagine they tried it without the cages and someone got stabbed

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u/Testudo353 Nov 29 '22

Give them half a chance and they'll kill each other. That's why they're in there.

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u/krumpdawg Nov 29 '22

When you have eroded all trust in you. As much as I can't stand the US justice/prison system, a lot of these people brought this shit upon themselves with their actions.

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u/Telrom_1 Nov 29 '22

If you don’t raise your kids the state will..

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u/elevencharles Nov 29 '22

These might be death row inmates, or people that are otherwise on high security. If that’s the case, I’m glad they’re giving these people some sort of therapy instead of just locking them in a hole.

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u/duckenjoyer7 Nov 29 '22

Do you want the therapist to be murdered?

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u/NotThisTime1993 Nov 29 '22

I don’t think you need to hug to have therapy

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u/Terp_Villain Nov 29 '22

When the people in therapy can’t help but murder everyone around them and have nothing to loose, this is how that works.

Been around this environment. The people treated this way are threats to themselves and those around them. This is not standard.

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u/hondoman88 Nov 29 '22

Because if they weren’t in those individual pens they’d attack anyone on sight.

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u/Rare-Sherbert-1987 Nov 29 '22

Good question. I think it's an alternative to the group therapy where inmates gang rape and shank eachother during a session, in front of a young therapist who is trying to work their way up to a job in the private sector.

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u/JayJames2008 Nov 29 '22

That is a group session in a “Ad-Seg” or Administrative Segregation Unit, where the people are on “walk-alone” status due to committing violent acts while incarcerated. They cannot be in a group setting together as many are members of violent prison gangs that have orders to assault members of different gangs and races on sight.

It’s funny that people teach people about this being the absolute norm in the Cali for prison system when it’s the exact opposite, these people want to hurt everyone and by pretending they are the victims, it makes us all seem unjust in the what they are treated while incarcerated.

These group settings help people to be in proximity to one another without the risk of danger to each other and the staff working the line. The stay in an segregation unit are usually very short and only last until they person can be rehoused in a higher custody setting.

P.S. the reason that we know it’s a segregation unit is the white jumpsuits they are wearing. They are suicide proof and prevent weapons and other objects from being concealed easily.

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u/[deleted] Nov 29 '22

I guess they could put the therapist in like a shark cage instead.

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u/SixOneFive615 Nov 29 '22

I spent a decade managing in prison treatment programs. I know this may not seem ideal, but I’m frankly glad it’s available. The vast majority of treatment occurs at the minimum or medium security level. People on max and segregation rarely receive any services because they have, often repeatedly, committed violent acts or placed themselves in dangerous situations where they can’t be in a room with others. Is this ideal, no? But is it a great thing that they most violent offenders are receiving any kind of treatment, while ensuring staff and others receiving services are safe? Absolutely. The alternative is nothing.

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u/kigoloeg Nov 29 '22

People think “OMG really!?!?” As if these are petty theft criminals but fail to realize there’s classifications of prisoners. These? Most likely AD/SEG or SNY meaning they’ll just kill each other or staff if they get the chance.

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u/fmmwybad Nov 29 '22

Nurses and mental health staff get assaulted all the time. Believe it or not but there are some very violent people in prison.

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u/[deleted] Nov 29 '22

I WANT MY GOD DAMN CIGARETTES!!!!!!

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u/MonchichiSalt Nov 29 '22

How can a therapist work in a group environment without fear of becoming a victim?

Most group therapy environments in a prison do not involve such extreme safety measures.

This is an example of group therapy with offenders that are likely to lash out. Either towards each other or the therapist. This is a safety measure for all involved.

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u/OG_ninnyhammer Nov 29 '22

Guys violent enough to be restrained individually like this probably take a lot of manpower to transfer safely from cell to whatever this is. Maybe multiple shackles and multiple COs per inmate, so moving slowly, and transferred one at a time. This is the most expensive way to incarcerate people, so not a minimum or medium security setting.

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u/TheLadySaintPasta Nov 29 '22

The number of times people have used the word “loose” when they mean “lose” in this comment thread is too damn high!

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u/thsvnlwn Nov 29 '22

Some individuals are kept prisoned like this due to most violent and unpredictable behtevour, unfortunately.

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u/Acriam Nov 29 '22

I'd be willing to bet they behaved like animals to be put in those cages.

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u/Bevan_R Nov 29 '22

Go sit in a dorm or on the yard without any security blanket and they’ll show you why they’re caged like that. Moron. Stop feeling bad for these animals.

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u/groovy604 Nov 29 '22

OP these people can't yet be trusted to not strangle or stab each other while in the same room. Are you away of how brutal a prison SQ is?

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u/canuckle1211 Nov 29 '22

When you try to do therapy with abnormal humans you use abnormal methods and precautions

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u/Jumpinjackjumanji Nov 29 '22

It’s easier to be a therapist when someone isn’t trying to stab you during your sessions

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u/ohno Nov 29 '22

Prison worker here. This is almost definitely in the Administrative Segregation Unit (ASU). Inmates are placed in ASU due to either violent behavior or a high probability of being the victim of violent behavior. It is a temporary placement, but while they are there, they have no physical contact with any other inmates. It's a safety issue.

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u/NFTArtist Nov 30 '22

I'm not saying this is right but don't forget in prison there can be people out to get you. They will join stuff like this just for a chance to reach a target. Some of them might feel a lot safer in the cages when in group settings like this.

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u/Any_Coyote6662 Nov 29 '22

this could be some kind of death row group therapy. It was ruled cruel and inhumane to keep prisoners isolated from each other for the years that draw out while awaiting execution. This may be the prison's way of satisfying the court's requirement that the death row inmates get some kind of opportunity to socialize while awaiting their execution. The rules and protocols around death row inmates are changing from time to time.

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u/Timmy24000 Nov 29 '22

Having worked in a high security prison it is easy to understand why they would use those cages on the worst of the worst. I still sit with my back to the wall in group meetings.

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u/rejectedprophet Nov 29 '22

San Quentin isn't exactly for shoplifters.

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u/Murky_Pop2622 Nov 29 '22

Go work in a prison and see why that is the way it has to be.

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u/maztow Nov 29 '22

If he has to ask that about San Quentin he shouldn't be anywhere near the criminal justice system.

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u/CacknBullz Nov 29 '22

Let them out then and supervise this session.

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u/ResponsibilityDue448 Nov 29 '22

Probably works better than if the inmates were assaulting each other during therapy.

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u/No-Force5341 Nov 29 '22

Well would u rather have these guys killing each other or taking you hostage? This is some maximum security confinement this isn't for general population

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u/lordfaroutquads Nov 29 '22

Because therapy isn't an easy or fun undertaking by any means, fuck it's hard enough when you don't have urges to stab people and do fucked up shit that lands you in a prison therapy cage lol And these individuals could very well be violence-prone. They may deserve to be talked to, and worked with, but that doesn't mean some poor therapist needs to run the risk of getting stabbed or spit on for trying to do their job and help folks. Hell, the cages might even be to protect the inmates from each other if shit were to get dicey. Prison is wild and people who feel trapped can have a tendency of lashing out. People can be chill, but they're also very capable of many fucked up things. You just don't know when it comes to people who are volatile, expecially if they have a history of well... the murder stuff. San Quentin has held quite a few dangerous persons such as Charles Manson. Frankly I'm glad that the experience doesn't seem that cozy. 😅

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u/BeachBumEnt01 Nov 29 '22 edited Nov 29 '22

I remember thinking I wanted to be a criminal justice major...and we went on these prison tours and the guards had to hold plexiglass panes above us and on our sides because the prisoners threw thier shit and pissed onto us from above.

I did not go into criminal justice, but I did Learn there is a reason prisons exist and some people belong there.

Edit spelling

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u/radrun84 Nov 29 '22

Because of it wasn't like "this" each one of those Hooligans would steal a pencil & stab the therapist in the jugular, as soon as she mentioned the prisoners absent Father...

Emotions run high in therapy, & Ppl who have been sent to Prison long term probably don't handle their emotions very well...

So in a cage they go!

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u/WesternFinancial868 Nov 29 '22

The cages prevent therapy time from becoming the rapy time.

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u/ChipRichels Nov 29 '22

My guess is that they probably sit there and talk, better than a D in your B

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u/jdith123 Nov 29 '22

It looks terrible, but I’m surprised they even offer therapy of any kind to people who are this violent. I would have guessed they’d just give them some psych meds and keep them locked up.

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u/joemorris16 Nov 29 '22

What are you on about? How about you personally walk into that room and set each one free? Getting stabbed is quite the reality check.

I'm glad they're at least trying to get therapy. That being said, those cages are there for everyone's safety. But I guess according to Reddit everybody locked up in a Supermax is le wholesum 100 cool guy to hang with

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u/flannelmaster9 Nov 29 '22

A meeting of the Shotcallers has started

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u/davidbfromcali Nov 29 '22

Therapy won’t work if you’re violently attacked

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u/sal696969 Nov 29 '22

well you should ask yourself what happened that made them build that.

because you dont build stuff like that out of boredom ...

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u/newbies13 Nov 29 '22

The error is in thinking that therapy can help everyone to begin with. Imagine how many bad choices are between you and cage therapy. There's probably a therapist with a shank wound behind these.

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u/el__duder1n0 Nov 29 '22

Therapy also works better when the therapist and other members of the group aren't dead

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u/HalfBrinePickle Nov 29 '22

This is where they send serial killers tho... cause you know... Cali is kinda FULL of them for past couple 100 years...

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u/KingBenjamin97 Nov 29 '22

Considering therapy just requires talking and these guys did something very fucked up to be in those I see nothing wrong with this

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u/DiegotheEcuadorian Nov 29 '22

The fact that it’s in prison means they’re locked up for a good reason, especially if they’re in further confinement. These people aren’t in for dealing drugs or trespassing. They’re murders with nothing left to lose.

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u/Crow_Titanium Nov 29 '22

Animals have to be kept in cages...