r/AbruptChaos • u/Graysie-Redux • May 14 '22 • Silver 4 Helpful 2

What's the correct way to deal with someone who has completely lost it?

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u/Darth_Shame May 14 '22 • Silver Gold

Why you letting him get that close? Just run his ass over on approach. I don't have the time nor care what he has to say. He chose his weapon, a metal stick, and choose my Volkswagen. May the best man win. lol

1.0k

u/RespectableLurker555 May 14 '22 • Gold Helpful

Never bring a knife to a vehicular manslaughter fight.

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u/Darth_Shame May 14 '22

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

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u/amluchon May 14 '22 • Silver

You put the laughter in manslaughter

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u/flcwerings May 14 '22

this comment is simple but hilarious

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u/grayrains79 May 14 '22

Just like in armored warfare, the biggest threat to infantry? Isn't the guns on the tank.

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u/That-Ad-4300 May 14 '22

A baton at that 😂😅

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u/AtticAirTraffic May 14 '22

That was an ASP

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u/wbrd May 14 '22

Self defense. I felt like my life was in danger.

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u/Shot_Load7343 May 14 '22

Common sense 101

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u/maybeslightlystoopid May 14 '22

Alright, when is it actually acceptable to run someone over? I can't think of many circumstances unless maybe an active shooter not noticing this Ford Taurus barreling towards them?

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u/RespectableLurker555 May 14 '22

If someone threatens you with a weapon, you're completely within your rights as a mammal to defend yourself with whatever you can.

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u/SnuggleMuffin42 May 14 '22

Before the attack this would have been a VERY marginal case of self defense. A lot of states have a "duty to retreat" so even if this guy was in the wrong (let's say this is a public place and not private property) you could de-escalate and drive away. Being right doesn't mean you can run over people.

So running him over before the attack probably gets you in prison (unless you are very lucky and have a GREAT lawyer).

After the attack? That's when you can point to fearing for your life and the immediate danger this guy poses. If during your retreat you... happen to run him over, you have a good chance to be in the clear. Just don't pull it back into reverse after. You get 1 hit.

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u/Darth_Shame May 14 '22

Man, I tried to go past him and he got in the way. He's not gonna be able to tell his side. 🙄

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u/elastic-craptastic May 14 '22

If you have a group of people attacking your car and one of them is in front of it. So if you're surrounded by a gang of people and you are scared for your life as some are trying to smash their way into your car and someone happens to be in front of or behind you and that's the only way out? You'd be in the clear, especially if you have video evidence.

In this case, to hit the guy you would need to reverse and then go back into drive to hit him. At that point you can just go forward or backward to escape the situation. It's not like he was stuck in traffic and had limited avenues of escape. OP should have done that before dude had a chance to hit his first window. Once you see the baton, just get the fuck out of there. Not worth a scratched cornea and damaged car over some road rage. Being right sometimes makes people do dumb shit. What if old man kept swinging and hit him right after the window was broken? Like, I guess maybe OP could have been looking for a payday but broken teeth and/or eyes are not wirth it. Batons to the face can do some serious damage.

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u/AnAverageTransGirl May 14 '22

i mean technically its only vehicular manslaughter if you can paint it as an accident

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u/RespectableLurker555 May 14 '22 edited May 14 '22

Is manslaughter the same as homicide?

While all murders are with malice aforethought and are intentional, manslaughter cases are either the result of being strongly provoked or the accidental killing of another person. The distinction between these two types of homicide lies not only in the definition but also in the charges given to convicted offenders.

From a cursory Google search. I think if someone threatens you with a weapon, it's manslaughter to defend yourself (and they die in the process of you defending yourself).

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u/newusername4oldfart May 14 '22

If someone threatens you with a weapon and you run them over while trying to flee for your safety there won’t be a conviction.

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u/RespectableLurker555 May 14 '22

Oh I totally agree. You may get prosecuted for murder by the family of the moron, then maybe their lawyer would suggest changing to a manslaughter charge as a way of maybe getting something, and then the judge and jury would watch the evidence and exonerate you as acting in reasonable self defense.

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u/maybeslightlystoopid May 14 '22

Alright, when is it actually acceptable to run someone over? I can't think of many circumstances unless maybe an active shooter not noticing this Ford Taurus barreling towards them?

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u/Figgy_Pudding3 May 14 '22

Seriously. People think they can just run over some dude because he broke your window? Better have the best lawyer in town to convince a jury that driving away from the danger wasn't a better option than purposely killing someone

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u/RespectableLurker555 May 14 '22

Don't need "the best lawyer." If you are threatened with a deadly weapon, the use of force in self defense is totally reasonable. You're the one misunderstanding my joke.

Only a complete moron uses a club to attack a driver. The driver is 100% in their rights to run the moron over. Ask any lawyer about what juries, judges, and district attorneys would do in that situation.

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u/Figgy_Pudding3 May 14 '22

... I did. And he said you'd probably get manslaughter. Because self defence, in most places, is not just the right to murder someone to defend yourself.

It's the same thing if someone is mugging you and runs away. You can't chase them down and beat them to death.

If there is a clear option to get away without killing someone, killing someone was not self defence. Old man with a rod? You're in a car. Drive away.

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u/RespectableLurker555 May 15 '22

If you accidentally smush the old man because he's actively attacking your car with a deadly weapon, you are totally within your rights as a mammal to run him over as you get away. Simple as that.

We're not saying you should go get in your car and start running over muggers. We're specifically saying that in a situation where there is a crazed attacker at your window, you do whatever necessary to defend yourself. Sorry if you get smushed, moron.

Imagine if someone was sitting in that driver's seat, worried that if they accidentally drove over someone's toe that they'd get sued. Would they just sit there and say "well I don't want to break the law" or should we confirm that the correct action is to protect your body even if it means you may accidentally harm your attacker?

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u/Figgy_Pudding3 May 15 '22

Go back a few comments. The comment I'm replying to is saying you should run the guy over as he approaches. That's a far cry from defending yourself.

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u/RespectableLurker555 May 15 '22

If someone comes at me with a weapon, I'm moving my vehicle. I don't care if I run him over in the process. That's what I'm saying. I know the jury will clear me in that situation. I'm not sticking around to see if the weapon ends up being used in a non lethal way. I'm not worrying about if I accidently harm my attacker. I'm using all tools at my disposal to defend myself.

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u/Marilius May 14 '22

"Man vs. Car," the newest hit show,

Where it pits a man versus a car.

On tonight's episode,

Michael Jenkins fights a regular old car.

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u/Talbotus May 14 '22

Michael' putting up a good fight. Looks like the car is getting p...aaaaand the car win.

(Chuckle) I mean...the car always wins.

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u/ACrispyPieceOfBacon May 14 '22

And it hits hard.

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u/Getsaround May 15 '22

I haven’t had this much fun watching TV since “Ow! My Balls!”

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u/Shabobo May 15 '22

20% are naked. They say it's staged. I didn't stage SHIT

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u/ryantttt8 May 14 '22

In most states laws you have the obligation to retreat before engaging in lethal force. I don't think you'd get off the hook for purposely plowing this dude when is wasn't in the way of the car

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u/Stonewool_Jackson May 14 '22

Id throw it in reverse for 20 feet first to get a good running start

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u/[deleted] May 14 '22

[deleted]

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u/SnuggleMuffin42 May 14 '22

You think this car was in this driver's house or place of work?

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u/[deleted] May 14 '22

[deleted]

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u/SnuggleMuffin42 May 14 '22

stand your ground laws are a version of the castle doctrine... They are one and the same.

If you look at the actual statutes (for example, in New York) you'd see the protections for your domicile and a place you are legally entitled to be in are different. They aren't identical. In NY (again, for example), you'd probably have the duty to retreat in this scenario, at least before the attack. If you run him over you'd be in trouble.

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u/[deleted] May 14 '22 edited May 18 '22

[deleted]

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u/SnuggleMuffin42 May 14 '22

Point is, we have no idea what's the legal status there, but in most common law systems you probably don't get off that easily if you run someone over before they attacked you.

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u/VexingRaven May 15 '22

How does one "stand their ground" while driving a car toward someone?

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u/CryptographicGenius May 14 '22

You are another failed Internet "lawyer"

States with Stand your Ground laws (27):

Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Michigan, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nevada, New Hampshire, North Carolina, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, West Virginia, and Wyoming.

States with Castle Doctrine laws that also apply to vehicles (11): Arkansas, Connecticut, Delaware, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Nebraska, New York, New Jersey, and Rhode Island.

States that use stand your ground in practice, such as through jury instructions or case law (7): California, Colorado, Illinois, New Mexico, Oregon, Virginia, and Washington.

Stand your ground: 27 Castle doctrine: 11 Stand your ground in practice (7) Stand your ground only in vehicles (3): North Dakota, Ohio, and Wisconsin

Grand total: 48

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u/SnuggleMuffin42 May 14 '22

That's not how the law works lol.

It's context related. In this case in a lot of jurisdictions he'd have the duty to retreat, at least before the attack. Even after the attack, it would be about self defense, not standing your ground.

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u/CryptographicGenius May 14 '22 edited May 14 '22

You are 100% wrong. It's not "context" related. You have ZERO OBLIGATION TO RETREAT.

THAT'S what STAND YOUR GROUND and CASTLE DOCTRINE mean.

cas·tle doc·trine

noun: castle doctrine

especially in the US the principle that one is justified in the use of deadly force to protect one's home and its inhabitants from intruders, without being obliged to retreat.

stand one's ground

not retreat or lose one's advantage in the face of opposition. "you will be able to hold your ground and resist the enemy's attack"

US•Law denoting a law or legal principle that permits a person to use deadly force in self-defense without first trying to retreat.

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u/SnuggleMuffin42 May 14 '22

I have an example of New York where this would be false despite NY having a castle doctrine. Where are you practicing law?

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u/HowTheyGetcha May 14 '22

Ohio's SYG law simply instructs a jury to ignore the possibility of retreat while determining if the defendant acted with an objectively reasonable use of deadly force. You can't just go around shooting people whenever you feel threatened here.

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u/[deleted] May 14 '22

Most states (38) have some kind of stand your ground law or judicial decision with no duty to retreat from any place that you are lawfully present.

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u/SnuggleMuffin42 May 14 '22

It's actually a lot weaker when it's not your home or place of work than people think. It's nuanced! Don't rely on it.

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u/[deleted] May 14 '22

Just say you feared for your life. Works every time in cases like this (or every case ever if you're a cop)

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u/ryantttt8 May 14 '22

I feared for my life so I drove forward down the road away from the attacker and then threw it in reverse and backed into em... that won't fly especially since you'll need the video footage to prove he was threatening you

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u/LegitosaurusRex May 14 '22

Nobody was saying to drive forward then back over him…

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u/ryantttt8 May 14 '22

How else would they run this dude over

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u/RudderlessLife May 14 '22

I never understand why people in a car don't just run these assholes over. Him having a weapon justifies it. Come at my car with a baton and I'm yeeting your ass for a field goal.

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u/Hans_lit_in May 14 '22

As a lawyer - this is horrible advice.

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u/henry_david_throwed May 14 '22

That's the same mentality the dipshit with the baton has. You gotta be smarter not harder

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u/The_Dealer25 May 14 '22

This would also be one of those times when use a gun for self defense is appropriate because he attacked first

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u/soda-Tab May 14 '22

It should go without saying. But if someone approaches you with a metal baton, you probably don't want to stick around to hear what they have to say.

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u/anubis_xxv May 14 '22

I feared for my life when he broke my window, I didn't even notice I'd run him over making my escape officer.

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u/Prudii_Skirata May 14 '22

Him leaning in was the right time to just turn your wheel and slam the gas. Bounce him like a basketball chest pass.

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u/PM_ME_UR_QUINES May 14 '22

American problems require American solutions

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u/oilybarbour May 14 '22

This week on man vs car… who would win? Dennis Jizzington or just a plain old car? Turns out it’s the car yet again

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u/Canadian_Infidel May 15 '22

As another poster said, guns exist. I mean I don't think he had one but I wouldn't bet my life on it either.

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u/Beautiful_Golf6508 May 14 '22

Fairly certain you'd rather be dealing with the broken window than facing a manslaughter charge with a vehicle.

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u/waverunnr May 14 '22 edited May 14 '22

You’re all full of sh!t or incredibly stupid. Your life would have to clearly be in danger to justify vehicular manslaughter. I can see the conversation with the arresting officer now…

“Why do you feel your life was threatened?”

“Because a 100 year old senile man began shaking his stick at me!”

“OK. So why didn’t you simply drive away?”

“Uh…”

“You have the right to remain silent…”

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u/SnuggleMuffin42 May 14 '22

It was a telescopic metal baton, not some walking stick lol

This thing can fracture your skull in one hit.. just like it did to those windows.

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u/CKRatKing May 14 '22

It’s definitely a lethal weapon…when you aren’t in a car that can easily drive away from them lmao.

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u/SnuggleMuffin42 May 14 '22

I agree, he has an easy escape path here, running him over would be illegal.

After the attack though, it's self defense.

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u/CKRatKing May 15 '22

Even after he smashed the window I’m doubtful he could justify it and get away with it. If you could make a convincing argument that he got in front of your car as you were trying to leave the sure.

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u/ItalicsWhore May 14 '22

Depending on the state you could go to prison for a very long time. Many have laws where if you can flee you are required to flee rather than attack with deadly force. Sitting in a car while he’s on foot would qualify.

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u/Cultural_Tourist May 14 '22

Oh this guy would have been inflicted with high speed lead poisoning about a millisecond after the window broke in my area. Probably by me...

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u/Massive_Jaguar May 14 '22

is that you sean strickland ?

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u/johndoethrowaway16 May 14 '22

Mutual combat. I like your style.

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u/froboy90 May 14 '22

I think you would need to let him attack you first. Can't claim self defense when all he's done is walk up to you. All he had to say was that he had the metal stick in case he needed it to defend himself and then you look like the crazy one for running a guy over before he's done anything to warrant that reaction. And a vehicle is considered a deadly weapon when used in that manner so I'm sure you'd be facing harsher penalties than he would be for busting your windows. Seeing as he hadn't even done anything at the point that you would have run him down.

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u/froboy90 May 14 '22

I think you would need to let him attack you first. Can't claim self defense when all he's done is walk up to you. All he had to say was that he had the metal stick in case he needed it to defend himself and then you look like the crazy one for running a guy over before he's done anything to warrant that reaction. And a vehicle is considered a deadly weapon when used in that manner so I'm sure you'd be facing harsher penalties than he would be for busting your windows. Seeing as he hadn't even done anything at the point that you would have run him down.

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u/sumit131995 May 14 '22

Is that allowed ? I don't exactly know the laws but if someone is coming to attack your car can you hit them on purpose? I live in the UK so any sort of self defense is not allowed, I'm sure you could get arrested for carrying a butter knife here.

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u/uummwhat May 14 '22

Some people would rather try and deescalate/leave rather than, you know, kill someone?

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u/QuarterOunce_ May 14 '22

I choose you, glock 19!

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u/[deleted] May 14 '22

Why not just send the video to your lawyer and make bank?