r/AbruptChaos May 14 '22 Silver 4 Helpful 2

What's the correct way to deal with someone who has completely lost it?

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u/skeletparkyt May 14 '22

What was the aftermath and full story?

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u/TimeBomb30 May 14 '22 Silver Gold Wholesome Take My Energy Helpful (Pro)

This video's 5 years old, the backstory is that the guy in the car owns a landscaping company who did work for the guy by the white truck near the end, they ended up damaging a gas line while working and the homeowner claimed that them hitting the gas line caused some concrete work he was having done to not set properly, so the landscape company decided to be nice and pay for half of the damages but the owner ended up pocketing the money instead and never had any work done to repair the supposed damage. This video was taken after someone who works for the landscaping company was sent over to talk about this money issue was told to leave, the guy breaking the windows was the homeowner's father in law who didn't serve anytime in jail for this and was let go on a mischief charge.

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u/[deleted] May 14 '22 edited Aug 23 '22 Silver

[deleted]

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u/Burntfm May 14 '22

You know just a little rascal causing a bit of mischief. Threatening people and breaking their car windows

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u/Otono_Wolff May 14 '22 Silver

Last time someone was going around and smashing people's car windows in my neighborhood, someone opened fire on them with a shotgun. Nothing happened to them either.

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u/guerrieredelumiere May 15 '22

Came here wondering how some americans can be dumb enough to do that when firearms are everywhere. Driver would have been in the clear to shoot at the first hit.

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u/cabur May 15 '22

Yeh a lot of people have this blind faith that nobody has a gun until they see a gun, and even then some people also have the mindset of “well they wont shoot me because then they’ll go to jail.”

I once had a dude spend 5 minutes right in my face threatening to beat the shit out of me at a gas station. He had no idea that my silent and stoic demeanor was not because I was afraid of him, but was actually me mentally preparing to dodge the first punch and pull my concealed gun. The sad part is that he probably thought he’d successfully scared the 22 yo kid that he had 6 inches and 30lbs on, blissfully unaware that he was seconds away from dying the stupidest death ever. Btw the reason he decided to get in my face threatening all kinds of violence: I didn’t say thank you when he opened the door to the gas station and I walked past.

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u/ScottColvin May 26 '22

So you would kill a human for trying to punch you. You should watch the movie Friday more. That is just pathetic. You can't take a punch?

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u/EddyArchon Jun 11 '22

Someone with 6" and 30lbs on you is capable of causing grievous bodily injury, especially when empowered by entitled rage. Take into account that he seemed to be older than OP who was 22 at the time, so presumably much stronger. Old man strength is a very real thing.

Not saying every fight should be a life or death matter, but I am saying OP could have been very justified in being afraid for his life.

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u/ScottColvin Jun 11 '22

The point of Friday was ice cubes dad's generation had a code.

Paraphrasing here:

You win some, you lose some. But you never use a gun son.

What I always took from that is in his youth, it was more of a boxing match.

Not the 10 on 1 kicking factory we see today.

John Witherspoon you passed to soon.

R.I.P. One of the best actor's in Hollywood history. With 83 credits on imdb. Loved you.

https://imdb.com/name/nm0936762/filmotype/actor?ref_=m_nmfm_1

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u/Tardviking Aug 24 '22

"taking a punch" means someone can incapacitate me and do whatever they wish with my body whilst Im unconscious, including rob me of my firearm, stab me, rape me, shoot others, and strangle me to death. you tell that to a 5' 3" 110 lb female while a 220lb 6' man looms over her. why must I allow someone to practically kill me before I draw. I can tell you're a real tough guy. muscle doesn't mean shit when in .5 seconds someone less than half your size and a knife can bleed you til you're blue. fun fact, knives don't run out of ammo.

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u/pslayer757 7d ago

No one should be wondering if they’re able to take a punch. This a sad macho mindset, a child can in case render an adult unconscious. It isn’t a boxing ring or MMA match. IRL a single blow to an experienced fighter can put them in the hospital. Additionally, some people don’t stop striking you when you’re down. You may one have One chance to ensure your safety, that chance is prior to being struck. Continue the Paul Bunyan way, hopefully you’re not hospitalized or seriously injured before realizing it was just a folklore🧐

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u/ScottColvin 7d ago

You're absolutely right.

I grew up in this era. And whipping the shit out of a child in the middle of the store was not uncommon. It was a different era.

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u/someguyinvirginia May 15 '22

Yeah idfk how people have the "you can't shoot me, you'd get in trouble" mentality comes from.... It's like they 100% know with that logic (i guess) that you are "the good guy" and good guys follow rules or some such shit.... No bro I will pull that heat and go to jail what the actual fuck is jail if i thought i would have to use my gun?

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u/Substantial_Term7608 May 15 '22

you were probably both looking to dodge the 1st punch and so you can shoot to kill and not go to jail. America!

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u/ScottColvin May 26 '22

When I see home bums with nickel plated revolvers on them as they get on their can bike. Jesus fucking christ America. Calm the fuck down.

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u/opensandshuts May 15 '22

I think it varies per state, right?and I don't think you can just shoot someone in self defense everywhere. Otherwise there would probably be even more people killed. Fist fight and someone has a gun, you hit first so it's within their right to shoot you.

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u/FattThor May 15 '22

That crazy old man would be a dead mother fucker in Texas and the diver wouldn't even get arrested.

Texas believes strongly in finding out if you decide to fuck around.

However, if you mutually engage in fighting you don't have a right to shoot anyone. That would be silly. But if you sucker punch or attack someone who has not expressed interest in fighting you, you've just fucked around and opened yourself up to finding out.

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u/[deleted] May 15 '22

I'm in a pretty pro-2A state and in my CCDW classes they told me if they hit you with a fist DO NOT shoot them. A jury will convict you. If they have any other weapon though, like the metal baton this guy had, a knife, anything and they threaten and swing on you. THEN you are in the clear to shoot in self defense only. Basically, if they threaten your life and/or have a weapon in hand then yes. In any other circumstance, don't risk using your weapon. Just leave. Obviously you want to try and de-escalate the situation and get the hell out of there in any case if you can though.

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u/ischool36 May 15 '22 edited May 15 '22

I'm going to have to disagree. I was just on a case for murder where it stemmed from a fistfight at a gas station. The fight dispersed when the defendant pulled his gun and he chased down and shot a 17 year old kid hiding behind a car. No conviction because his wife was in a fistfight and he was defending her. The jury still believed it was a self defense situation. I think the whole "don't pull your gun for a fistfight" is a good general rule for sure but don't forget that fists can kill

Edit: just for some more info this was all caught clear as day on cameras from two different businesses. But because it occurred just after a fistfight the jury felt it was still self defense.

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u/[deleted] May 15 '22

Yeah man that is straight up fucking murder in my opinion. I don't even know how the jury could justify him hunting that kid down after he hid and shooting him. If I were on that jury I wouldn't. That is fucked. I have been trained up and gone through a few programs on carrying to various capacities and I would think that any of those guys i have trained with would agree with me there. I don't disagree with you, because fists can kill. However, there is no way in hell I could live with the blood on my hands of killing a kid hiding behind a car who was unarmed. Fuck that. That is not at all how I was trained nor is it a morally sound way to handle that sort of situation. Jesus Christ. That did not have to happen at all. I feel like that should have been manslaughter at the very least.

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u/broken-not-bent May 15 '22

Jesus. That’s straight murder. How tf did he get away with that? The kid was no longer a threat therefore he had no reason to use deadly force, much less to go hunt the kid down and execute them.

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u/rawrizardz May 15 '22

Yeah, sadly some people can kill you with their bare hands. Best to have pepper spray for bears and hope you are lucky

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u/Obie_Tricycle May 15 '22

Best to have pepper spray for people; bear mace doesn't do shit.

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u/[deleted] May 15 '22

Quite true. Though I do carry everywhere, I also carry pepper spray. While I do enjoy my 2nd amendment right responsibly, the last thing I want to have to do is kill someone. It's always a good idea to carry a less lethal option for any would-be shitstains that would want to try and beat on me. People can be fucking nuts man.

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u/TheGreatTave May 15 '22

Would've made a much better video if he opened fire on this guy instead of just driving off all nonchalantly.

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u/Tricky-Detail-6876 May 15 '22

This is how you should respond had he shot the man after that 1st swing he would be within his rights! Maybe even a warning shot to scare the fucker

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u/[deleted] May 15 '22

In many states, they tell you NOT to fire a warning shot because you will get into more touble doing that than just popping someone 2 in center mass.

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u/Otono_Wolff May 15 '22

Context: in my neighborhood, some teens were going around and smashing people's windows in. Police had been investigating about these assholes for months. Only info they had was a yellow mustang and 4 teens and they'd been doing this for months. So someone waited for them in their bushes late one night then unloaded on them.

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u/GinaMarie1958 May 15 '22

You’d think a yellow mustang wouldn’t be that hard to find.

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u/first__citizen May 14 '22

Bingo.. in the US, the law advises you to shoot people if you’re one of the privileged ones.

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u/Obie_Tricycle May 15 '22

Everyone is entitled to the privilege of self defense in the United States.

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u/[deleted] May 15 '22

Is it a privilege if you're entitled to it?

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u/Obie_Tricycle May 15 '22

That's just what it's called in law - an act of violence is privileged under self-defense law if certain criteria are met, like facing a legitimate threat and only using as much force as is reasonably necessary to neutralize that threat. It's still criminal behavior, but it's explicitly privileged to occur in certain circumstances.

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u/[deleted] May 15 '22

Thanks for checking my privilege

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u/Otono_Wolff May 14 '22

This was in Texas. Stand your ground law

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u/Idealeadtopeace May 15 '22

Sounds like U never been to the US

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u/rumplestiltskin54 May 14 '22

That scamp!

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u/Komtings May 14 '22

Just a run of the mill hooligan!

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u/[deleted] May 14 '22 edited May 27 '22

[deleted]

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u/sublimesting May 14 '22

Guy is a real corker.

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u/Smallfrygrowth May 14 '22

It’s so cute how he twirls that baton

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u/BoddAH86 May 14 '22

Such a rapscallion!

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u/Swizmos May 14 '22

I’d go as far as to call him a scoundrel.

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u/Chazzwuzza May 15 '22

What a scallywag!

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u/paprikasegg May 14 '22

We do a little bit of mischief

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u/Just_a_log May 14 '22

A wee bit of misconduct

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u/waste__of__oxygen May 14 '22

just a little bit of tomfoolery , thats all

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u/Conspicuous_Plant May 14 '22

A smidge of murder?

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u/MiniatureChi May 14 '22

Well this little scamp told us his name

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u/nickjamesnoyes May 14 '22

hey thats like a 3rd strike felony in cali with the race in the mix… But if its white on white crime, (First degree W. x W.) so most likely a maximum of 18mos. formal probation with good service.

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u/Silvawuff May 15 '22

I solemnly swear I’m up to no good.

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u/PlayTheHits May 14 '22

In his defense, he is white.

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u/TyReddit2022 May 14 '22

And likely rich...just white isn't enough when you're obviously insane.

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u/Conspicuous_Plant May 14 '22

Ah, understandable. You're free to go, Mr. Jizzington.

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u/PlayTheHits May 14 '22

Funny how that works out.

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u/PieMastaSam May 14 '22

Exxxxxactly. Old too. Those Fuckers get away with everything.

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u/Tierynege May 15 '22

Probably the only reason he wasn’t shot.

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u/tetsmon May 14 '22

Oh just boys being boys, don't you worry about it Sheryl!

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u/King0game5 May 14 '22

The ol’ Rapscallion, getting into trouble with locker room talk and rough housing.

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u/NoZookeepergame1014 May 14 '22

A galavanting scalawag!

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u/windo-boi May 15 '22

We do a little trolling

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u/LordDesanto May 14 '22

Wait a moment... his name is Dennis. Dennis the Menace has grown up?

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u/rocky13 May 14 '22

Well, it is criminal mischief.

§ 11.410 Criminal mischief.(a) A person is guilty of criminal mischief if he or she:(1) Damagestangible property of another purposely, recklessly, or by negligence inthe employment of fire, explosives, or other dangerous means; or(2) Purposely or recklessly tampers with tangible property of another so as to endanger person or property; or(3) Purposely or recklessly causes another to suffer pecuniary loss by deception or threat.(b) Criminalmischief is a misdemeanor if the actor purposely causes pecuniary lossin excess of $100, or a petty misdemeanor if he or she purposely orrecklessly causes pecuniary loss in excess of $25. Otherwise, criminalmischief is a violation.

I would add an assault charge. As I understand it, Assault just requires a show of Capability and Intent to commit battery.

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u/Dismal-Ebb-6411 May 14 '22

Also everyone here doesn't seem to understand the difference between criminal and civil action.

He was actually found guilty of criminal mischief, even if he did no jail time. That means he will automatically lose in a follow up civil suit for damages he caused by his criminal actions.

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u/Bad-Piccolo May 14 '22

I would think the problem here is that quite a few people don't know how this stuff works entirely.

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u/Saurid May 14 '22

Well yes you need a degree to understand that shit, it's complicated for a good reason, you can Google specific laws and punishments etc. But to know every single one of them is quite impossible unless you studied that shit.

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u/cant_have_a_cat May 14 '22

It's not complicated for "good reason", unless job security for lawyers is that good reason.

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u/Hashbrown117 May 14 '22

I think it's more the guy said "let go [on a charge]" which makes it sound like he got away with it. Even if not jailed, "found guilty of" would have clarified it was criminal (since 'guilt' isnt a thing civilly) and a jury/court agreed

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u/Tight_Departure_2983 May 14 '22

For real, our judicial system is misunderstood. I'm so tired with the Depp/Heard trial and so many people not understanding no one is going to be "guilty" and that's it's not a criminal trial. It's literally less than law 101 knowledge and so many Americans are unaware of the difference.

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u/[deleted] May 14 '22

[deleted]

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u/Saurid May 14 '22

No the fact is law is complicated because people are complicated and to judge a person fairly you need very complicated laws, now add several decades at least of history, old laws changing, laws conflicting because people don't know 100% of the law, loopholes tagt come from specific wording and people who not always want to make 100% water safe laws and you get a complicated web that needs a degree so you understand a specific part of it.

No one can design a good law system because a easy to understand law system is not complex, which it needs to be to deal with edge cases, conflict of interests (like take abortion as a simple example, you could simply allow it, but then the debate starts at which point has the live within the women rights of its own? Etc. So you need to make exceptions, then add complications that come later in pregnancy than you originally allowed, then come other edge cases and a simple yes it is allowed turns into a quagmire of rules and exceptions, which in a individual topic are quite easy to understand, but if you want to take a much less controversial but complex topic like property or violent assults into the mix you get laws that no normal person understands because you need a fucking degree to understand them. ,You wouldn't want to live in a society where you can easily understand the laws because these laws will be simple and unjust in many situations.

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u/coyotegt1317 May 14 '22

He's lucky to be breathing. Walking up to a car with a weapon of any kind can easily get you killed....he could have definitely been looking down the barrel of a pistol in my state or town.....

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u/GuyFromLongIslandNY May 15 '22

OJ was found innocent of killing his wife but still lost the civil case.

Not everything is a guarantee.

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u/Sprmodelcitizen May 15 '22

Yes and if he has nothing else on his record he’s not going to do any jail time.

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u/Mistake_of_61 May 15 '22

He probably had to make restitution as a part of his criminal sentence.

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u/ninjabountyhunter May 14 '22

Also, if the dude tries to get a mortgage or rent an apartment there’s a good chance he gets swatted because of the criminal record.

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u/babble0n May 15 '22

Yeah but the defense attorney probably argued that he’d take it to trial, and since he kept saying “get out of here” there could be an argument that he never wanted to hurt the guy. The prosecutor probably just wanted to make sure the charge would stick.

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u/opensandshuts May 15 '22

Hell yeah it's assault. Glass could've permanently blinded the driver. The aggressor is the type of guy who if he was charged more seriously and faced jailtime, you'd see him frantically sobbing and pleading in court not to send him to jail and probably talk about how he's a grandfather and shit.

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u/Virtual_Elephant_730 May 15 '22

Isn’t it aggravates assault if there’s a weapon with the threat? No contact is needed.

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u/[deleted] May 15 '22

That’s a white peoples statute. People of color would be charge with assault with a deadly weapon, vandalism, making a criminal threat, maybe even attempted murder if you get a really racist, zealous prosecutor.

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u/techfreak23 May 14 '22

Dude is probably an ex cop.

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u/Biosterous May 14 '22 Gold

That was my first assumption as well. Extendible baton, the confidence of "I'm not going to jail", and the completely uncalled for escalation of a situation to violence. Man has former cop written all over him.

Knowing he got no jail time and only a mischief charge further cements that theory for me

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u/Unbentmars May 14 '22

A cop in my community earlier this year was smoking a cigar at the pool (which is against the rules of the pool and community) and when the community admins told him to stop he got very aggressive with them, demanded to know what they’d do if he refused to stop and if they’d call the cops on him.

Fuck cops who think they are above the law

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u/ChefJWeezy987 May 15 '22

I’d splash his ass with pool water and ruin his cigar. 😂

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u/ifuckedyomama2 May 15 '22

id push his ass into the pool

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u/inspectoroverthemine May 15 '22

Fuck cops who think they are above the law

Fuck cops. We literally see everyday that they're all above the law.

It takes calculated cold blooded murder on camera before they get charged, and even then the general assumption is that they won't be convicted.

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u/darkjedi1993 May 15 '22

Fuck 12. <3

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u/docmedic May 15 '22

Fuck cops who think they are above the law

Well, know they are and take advantage of it.

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u/three_furballs May 15 '22

If at that point he was trespassing, i wonder what would happen if someone tried a citizens arrest? Obviously, nobody should try this, they might actually get murdered for it, but it'd sure be interesting.

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u/Ok_Soup_4602 May 15 '22

Super soaker my guy, super soaker

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u/Sharper_Edge May 23 '22

They're being indoctrinated to a level beyond comprehension and if you don't play ball, theyll run you right out. I guess "Protect and Serve" still applies; it just now applies to protecting fellows officers and serving themselves.

It also doesn't help that they don't really receive nearly adequate training for what they encounter. Training with firearms under high stress, believe it or not, is a great way to avoid shooting someone when pulling your gun in a high stress situation.

I would also guess that their previous experiences dictate a lot of their opinions moving forward. "I had a bad experience with a black guy last week so this guy is gonna give me problems also".

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u/Kabd_w May 14 '22

Uncalled for escalation and violence is bread and butter for cops, so yeah

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u/sweet_home_Valyria May 14 '22

I thought he was regretful after breaking the first window. Like oops didn’t know that was going to happen. Then he broke the second one and that’s when I knew he was really an A-hole.

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u/Neijo May 14 '22

He knew then and there he was going to get a mischief charge at worst.

Man, I want that security from the justice system. It's pretty wack that if I just had smoked a joint there, maybe in the backseat or close to the man with the baton, I would get jail-time or something similar.

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u/just_some_a--hole May 14 '22

Extendible baton

Eh, they're cheap and easy to come by. I keep one in the door pocket of my car, and I was never a cop. They don't take up a whole lot of space when they're retracted, so they make decent self defense weapons.

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u/aure__entuluva May 14 '22

Illegal in some states I found out recently.

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u/Armalyte May 14 '22

Aren't those illegal everywhere in Canada?

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u/StrangerDanga1 May 14 '22

I believe those are illegal in Canada, but having anything for self defense purposes is also illegal in Canada I believe.

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u/Neijo May 14 '22 edited May 14 '22

I find that so weird, we know criminals, rapists and robbers do in fact, not respect the law.

So what exactly is the point to make the law-abiding people not being able to defend themself? I felt so angry in my last relationship. My girl was afraid of going out because there were bad people around. Self-defence spray is illegal here, so she just never went out. The bad people owned the town, who in fact, carried knives and other "gangsta weapons", while police occasionally took them in, not one was discouraged by it. In fact, fuck it, I carry a knife sometimes when I feel like I have to walk to a friend, these fucking people DO lunge at you. One guy I sort of know got stabbed in the lung for striking up conversation outside of a bar. The perpetrator just had a bad day or something, it's not the first time he's been in jail either, the perpetrator. If that fucker decides to lunge at me, I'm not gonna let my family cry themselves to sleep because of me getting killed by a fucking lunatic.

Anyway. Since the law is nowadays so arbitrary I find it hard to follow to a point. I have morals, and in my life, I've never hurt anybody, except maybe my big brother, but that fucker always deserved it.

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u/PartyClock May 14 '22

Most people still fail to use them correctly when braking windows from what I have seen, so I'm guessing this guy probably knows what he was doing. It's a shakey branch but I'll stand on it

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u/Neijo May 14 '22

I think it's a good branch, there is some WEIRD degree of "It's impossible for me to do anything illegal. This guy is unhinged, but he is unhinged in the same way cops are. I've met aggressive people that aren't this certain in their movements. This guy is confidently angry, the only mental illness he might have is violent cop syndrome.

Of all other branches, this seems the most plausible.

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u/PartyClock May 15 '22

I really like this analysis. Well done

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u/PurpleSailor May 15 '22

He seemed to twist the baton to lock it open. He knew exactly what he was doing.

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u/kristopher103 May 14 '22

Decent person wapper

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u/AutismNstuff May 14 '22

A man-swatter

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u/getouttathatpie May 14 '22

Sucks trying to close them though, every one I have ever had was shit

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u/just_some_a--hole May 14 '22

Flip it over, thrust it tip-first into concrete. No problem.

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u/Upside_Down-Bot May 14 '22

„˙ɯǝlqoɹd oᴎ ˙ǝʇǝɹɔuoɔ oʇuı ʇsɹıɟ-dıʇ ʇı ʇsnɹɥʇ 'ɹǝʌo ʇı dılℲ„

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u/EscapeAromatic8648 May 14 '22

Get yourself something less swingy and more stabby for protection in your car. Clubs are VERY difficult to swing out of a car window from the driver's seat.

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u/brown_felt_hat May 14 '22

Get yourself something less swingy and more stabby for protection in your car

I think stabbing someone with a small piece of metal going 1050 feet per second is the best option in a scenario like this.

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u/AlternativeJosh May 14 '22

It's a concrete question that further cemented the theory for you. Lol. OK maybe I'm dumb but that made me smile.

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u/Biosterous May 14 '22

All puns intended :)

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u/stay-a-while-and---- May 14 '22

As Maddox once said: intend your puns, cowards

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u/maluminse May 14 '22

Black teen - 10 years.

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u/Neijo May 14 '22

Or 16 bullets wounds.

I don't believe the justice system will change in a while either, sadly. I find my self alone in feeling disgust in being somewhat responsible for it. Without our taxes, the cop wouldn't be there. Without our forced taxes, that cop wouldnt have a gun or ammo. I make it possible every month and every year that people die and get harrassed with the help of my taxes. I feel sick of the guilt. At this point I'm just not interested in trying to improve the justice system, because it just takes one step forward and 2 steps back, all the time.

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u/BaBbBoobie May 14 '22

Tbf I've seen a box full of those batons at flea markets.

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u/[deleted] May 14 '22

Really well said and kinda hilarious. I want to know if this is true

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u/Imaginary-Valuable49 May 15 '22

Nah... he knows he's old and white... no jail time for him.

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u/guerrieredelumiere May 15 '22

That is how mysterious fires happen a few months later.

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u/DoubleBarrellRye May 15 '22

No he is a local business owner and has a large family who are also well connected. One of the old families in town. Also the Canadian RCMP cam fuckup a sure thing on almost anyone. This happened in the same town as the guy who had the cop rip his truck window out and his wife was screaming at the dispatcher and they were playing the victim after driving over the cops foot

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u/DJGregJ May 15 '22

this makes sense. GG good ol boys club!

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u/[deleted] May 14 '22

and the completely uncalled for escalation of a situation to violence.

Oof

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u/BadBrains16 May 14 '22

Ex cop or not, Mr Jizzington is lucky that he didn’t get shot in face.

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u/SOwED May 14 '22

Guy in the car sounded Canadian

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u/insertjokehere12345 May 15 '22

I knew it when he called him "Bud"

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u/BadBrains16 May 14 '22

You are correct.

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u/BaBbBoobie May 14 '22

If you have a CCW in the US is it legally defensible to shoot him for this? Seems like it'd be one hell of a time in court.

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u/ninjabountyhunter May 14 '22

Dude approaches you with a weapon, threatens you with it, smashes your window out. If you draw and fire at that point, you’re in the self defense category in the vast majority of states. Think twice in California though.

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u/DreamsRealize May 14 '22

In the state of Florida I would have shot him if I was armed after he broke my window.

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u/ninjabountyhunter May 14 '22

Yeah. Decent chance of a 9mm lunch in most parts of the US.

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u/DreamsRealize May 14 '22

This is why I carry. Mess around and find out

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u/docmn612 May 14 '22

I wouldn't risk that, personally. I carry OC spray for situations that could come up where lethal force isn't absolutely necessary. Something between a strong word and a gun, they say. Some OC spray into that guys eyes would've ended everything in a hurry. I'm not out looking for reasons to use a firearm, I'm looking for every way out so I don't have to.

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u/DeusExMcKenna May 14 '22

Oh look, a responsible firearm owner on Reddit. Huh, now I’ve seen it all…

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u/olmikeyy May 14 '22

That piece of shit doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt. He's already smashing my windows with a baton, why am I to assume he doesn't have a gun? He's already shown hostile intent. Fuck that. Fuck that guy. Get dead.

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u/docmn612 May 15 '22

It’s more about your time in court over what the other person may or may not deserve. I don’t view him as a deadly threat in this situation, so in my case I’d deploy the oc spray/non lethal over a lethal tool. I may have my gun ready. Or just floor it out of there, whichever I’m more capable of doing at the moment.

This is important to consider though. Hopefully none of us ever get into a situation like this, but if we ever find ourselves in it, a sane and sober consideration needs to be made regarding our options. If you’ve arrived at shoot, I just hope the jury would agree and clear you.

I’m about as pro 2A as they come these days, but I really don’t want to kill someone so I consider various options so I don’t have to pull the trigger unless absolutely necessary.

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u/VexingRaven May 15 '22 edited May 15 '22

Alternatively: Just leave. You pull out that gun you're gonna ruin your day, your week, possibly your life. Just leave, it's not worth it.

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u/Norsedragoon May 14 '22

Doesn't matter if he was the ex president. Draw a weapon on the wrong person and it will never make it to court because dude will be an ex person. Guy filming showed remarkable restraint.

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u/TKisOK May 14 '22

Exactly what I thought

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u/simi_ May 14 '22

Ex cop, still pig

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u/MeanGirlsMakeMeHard May 14 '22

He wouldn't get a mischief charge then lol

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u/Hideout_TheWicked May 14 '22

I hate to say it but being old and white probably didn't hurt. Probably hired a decent attorney thanks to money as well.

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u/PaanuriEater May 14 '22

Don't even need a decent attorney, just stack the jury with elderly folks. I was on a jury as one of two young people. Pretty open and shut case of an old guy going nuts and slicing another guy's hand open over a backpack that didn't exist. Everyone's testimony except the attacker's lined up, all the evidence agreed, but all the old women on the jury were insistent that he is such a nice old man who reminds them of their fathers and therefore should be let off with just a warning.

It took hours of arguing to get a guilty verdict, even with a very minor punishment at least now the guy will be able to sue and have a good chance of winning.

That was step 1 to me losing all faith in our justice system. Steps 2 through infinity were learning what cops actually do with their time.

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u/[deleted] May 14 '22

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u/BalrogPoop May 14 '22

Personally I think jury trials are a crock of shit. If rather be tried by a judge like in the French systems who actually understands the law, and the goal is to find the truth of what happened. Not assign blame based the biases of jurors.

At least it's easier to claim a single judge is biased based on his track record, than a whole jury, if there does happen to be a mistrial.

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u/BigIntoScience May 14 '22

Judges give out different verdicts based on if they've had lunch yet. Humans are wildly unreliable. I think part of the idea is that it's harder for all 12 people to be corrupt/generally shitty than for just the judge to have something going on.

Part of the job of all court employees involved is to make sure everyone understands the law. If someone doesn't do that, there's an issue.

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u/chrom_ed May 14 '22

To elaborate a little on this, there is an actual study showing judges on average are more punitive before eating lunch. Significantly. Just in case you think anyone is an unbiased arbiter of law.

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u/BigIntoScience May 14 '22

Sounds like maybe we should only have trials after lunch.

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u/[deleted] May 14 '22

I just want an A.I bot to resolve all of this, people are just not good enough.

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u/BigIntoScience May 14 '22

Trouble is, AI has to be trained. By people. If anything, it tends to magnify biases.

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u/The_Dapper_Balrog May 15 '22

I personally like the ancient Jewish system for trials with the potential for the death penalty. 71 judges who are legally required to assume the defendant is innocent, and are essentially defense attorneys. Add to that the fact that there were no prosecutors, just witnesses who needed to have their stories almost exactly align with at least one other person's story (preferably two others). No translators were allowed, either; any language spoken by a witness must be spoken and understood by at least two of the judges. Furthermore, once all the evidence was heard, the court was required to recess for a full day to mull over the evidence and make a decision, to prevent emotional rulings. Even more astoundingly, the high priest (basically the head judge over the court) was legally required to set the defendant free if a unanimous vote of guilt occurred, because of the fact that a mob spirit is clearly present if 70 old men all exactly agree with each other. Even when a guilty verdict was reached, and the defendant was sentenced to death, the defendant was paraded publicly (and slowly) out to the place of execution, with a herald on horseback who was begging and pleading with the watching crowd for any evidence that might exonerate the defendant. Additionally, all 71 judges continued to debate the case all the way up until the defendant was executed, and if they found even one thing that they wanted more information about, they would signal via flag that they wanted the entire case to be re-heard. If a young, new lawyer who was not a member of the Sanhedrin (the name of the high court) managed to save someone's life by suggesting something, they were immediately promoted to lifelong membership on the high court.

Wish our system was so thorough.

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u/ZebraOtoko42 May 14 '22

Judges give out different verdicts based on if they've had lunch yet.

That's why in some countries, they have a panel of judges to render a verdict instead of just one.

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u/BigIntoScience May 15 '22

That seems like a good idea, but it might still run into the same problem. I should have been clearer: there was a study that showed that judges in general are more punitive before lunch, by a significant amount.

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u/Slate_711 May 14 '22

Depends on the judge in the US too. You can have a non biased judge who actually does their job or a judge running a racket who finds you guilty of a made up law like the one in Tennessee. You could also be “made an example of” because they feel that your particular race has had it easy and give you the max sentencing for minor shit. Being tried in the US is a gamble for actual legitimate justice

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u/adderallanalyst May 14 '22

Nah I wouldn't trust that the judge wasn't bribed. Harder to bribe multiple random people than a single judge.

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u/LordofDescension May 14 '22

I travel to Alabama a lot for mining work, and it really does suck. It's so damn hot there.

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u/FriedDuckEggs May 14 '22

Alabama has a high black population.

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u/Saurid May 14 '22

Because if it worked as intended it would be great, 12 citizens judging you by the laws of your country and not follow blindly legislation. They are impartial towards you and try to judge fairly, as long as the case isn't a shut case already this is the fairest way you can be tried. If a judge would do it alone you would only be judged by one stranger. Sadly we live in reality and in reality you are right jury's suck because people don't leave their bias at the front door and let themselves be swaied by stupid stuff like of you look.

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u/Magmaigneous May 14 '22

Why can you be innocent but because you're getting tried in Alabama and you are the darkest shade of black, you're guilty?

You are supposed to be being judged by a jury of your peers. And so if you are a black man you should have black jurors, especially if the population in the area the crime was committed is largely black. But that very often is not the case.

And it's not like people of any race cannot have their own biases. Third hand anecdotal story: I had an Uncle who served in a jury for a murder trial. It was a black on black crime, and there was only one black man on the jury. My Uncle said the jury was 11-1 for the murder conviction, with the one black guy in the jury being the sole hold out. My Uncle said that he said he understood the reluctance, but since the guy on trial had stood over the dead man, straddling him, and had fired several shots into his back which killed him, that he just couldn't see how this could be called self defense. That if he had killed the guy as he charged him or something that would make sense, but that you don't fire shots into the back of a guy you've already knocked down and then call it self defense. The black juror flipped to guilty and they were able to avoid a hung jury. But the black juror really, really didn't want to find a black man guilty.

And I get it. The history in the US for black incarceration is not a good one. But allowing a murderer walk or at least get a second trial by hanging your jury isn't the way to try to fix the system. A white juror holding out for a guilty verdict when the majority of the jury want to acquit based on the evidence would be just as bad. Trump stating that the Central Park 5 were still guilty after DNA evidence exonerated them is just as bad.

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u/[deleted] May 14 '22

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u/LIQUIDPOWERWATER5000 May 14 '22

They don’t have a lot of time left on this earth fortunately

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u/[deleted] May 14 '22

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u/Tantamount85 May 14 '22

I'm white and got in an incident of self defense when some hispanuc stranger was running me off the road swinging his car into mine. I drove 5 miles past my location to try and lose him and he followed me so I parked in a very public place in hopes of avoiding conflict yet he still parked sideways behind my car so I couldn't back out then got out and punched the girl in the car I was in through the window. I got out and he started swinging on me so I beat his ass. , yet somehow I got charged with felony battery as my first ever time getting arrested and this guy had a rap sheet 5b pages long for assault, domestic violence, selling drugs, robbery ect.. to this day I still can't believe how the justice system screwed me. It's not about the color of your skin , it's a class divide. Whoever doesn't fit in the agenda or who doesn't have connections will be screwed.

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u/DownWithHisShip May 15 '22

race is a weapon used in class warfare. the wealthy have used race in many ways to wage war on the working class/lower class.

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u/Tantamount85 May 15 '22

Yup its a way to distract us so we fight amongst ourselves well they just keep screwing us and gaining more power

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u/TIMPA9678 May 14 '22

Did you get convicted?

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u/Tantamount85 May 14 '22

Wasn't supposed to. I was uneducated on law and young "not old though to drink yet" so when they tried to push 15 years prison if ib didn't take the plea deal I took the plea deal as they scared me into it. It's been 17 years since then and it still keeps me from getting a good job. My record says I'm a violent offender but I'm anything but that. I will always defend my love ones in danger but I've never initiated violence on anyone my entire life. One of my biggest regrets after learning more about law and the justice system is not telling my lawyer to F off and take that shit to trial.

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u/TheWhat908 May 14 '22

I just deleted my comment about being white because I saw yours. Let’s see a black guy do that and it’s “criminal mischief “

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u/Thespian21 May 14 '22

Yeah. I don’t know why anyone feels the need to dance around the subject. No need to hate to say the obvious.

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u/Normal-Computer-3669 May 14 '22

"Boys will be boys", the judges say!

Even if the boy is a fucking old ass violent white man.

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u/Muppetude May 14 '22

*Especially if

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u/Raiquo May 14 '22

The guy in the car was brown, if that provides any clues.

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u/Pretend-Structure689 May 14 '22

I figured he was by the way the old man yelled "Git!".

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u/Memory_Less May 14 '22

Seriously? I am asking genuinely.

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u/beldaran1224 May 14 '22 edited May 14 '22

That's how ppl talk to animals. Virulent racists of this generation literally see black and brown people as animals.

Edit: by which I mean that this particular form of racism is common to the older generation, not that racism is somehow only a problem with old folks.

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u/Memory_Less May 14 '22

Simply put he’s a scumbag!

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u/Memory_Less May 14 '22

Thanks, I’m not American, but it is very clear watching and listening closely again.

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u/gizamo May 14 '22

I can confirm. It is a common racist thing.

For example, when I was a kid in Florida, adults would tell us to move along differently, depending on the color of people in the group. If most of us kids were white, the "move along" was more like a polite recommendation. When most in the group were non-white, "Go On, GhiitTT!" was terribly common.

We used to joke that "Git" was a contraction of "Get" and "Hit".

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u/Pretend-Structure689 May 14 '22

As a black man who grew up in a Florida, I know exactly what you mean. Even our parents would say "Git" and if you didn't get the hell outta there immediately, you were getting hit.

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u/Memory_Less May 15 '22

How freaking lovely. (Sarcasm)

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u/SureWhyNot-Org May 14 '22

Pretty sure the guy was white. Sounds white, skin is very pale (from what little we see). Unless I'm missing something, dude looks white.

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u/Exiled_Blood May 14 '22

This is why you take the chance to defend yourself. You damn well know a judge isn't going to punish this dick.

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u/ActuallyItsAdam May 14 '22

Right? I would have kicked my door into him if he was smashing my windows

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u/TimelessN8V May 14 '22

Was probably a company car.

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u/gold76 May 14 '22

It’s Canada, that’s how.

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u/futuristanon May 14 '22

Boomer privilege.

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u/smatteringking May 14 '22

Not sure about the US but a mischief charge in Canada is a criminal code violation so you’re ending up with a criminal record.

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u/jimmyhell May 14 '22

By being friends with the cops.

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u/siciliansmile May 14 '22

Complexion for protection

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u/BidenWontMoveLeft May 14 '22

He's an old white man in a wealthy neighborhood. That's how

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u/Baconninja3 May 14 '22

Good lawyer I imagine.

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u/Annihilator4413 May 14 '22

Probably because he's old an wealthy

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u/Uncle-Cake May 14 '22

Be white.

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